The death hold zone thing

[Bargeld]

Yeah, this line of discussion is just a rehash of the same stuff from a month ago... We all had skewed interpretations at the time. It was cleared up last discussion.

It actually breaks into 2 scenarios... the dual loggers and the single loggers (this is not to single you out, but dual logging does require their own ruleset in these scenarios).

For single loggers, it's very cut and dry. You can raid with Toon1. At any point, you may logoff with Toon1 and relog to defend with toon2, as long as you meet the requirements (same faction etc). You may then logoff Toon2 and defend with toon3 at any time, and so-on and so-forth. You may switch back to Toon1 to continue raiding ONLY if you have not touched a relic OR engaged a raider in 30 mins (this is a difficult thing to moderate IMO).

For dual logs, you may log only ONE raider, and as many defenders as you like. If you raid with that toon, you may not assume any control of your defenders. Once you 'switch' your attention from the raiding toon (this includes a dead body in a cradle room) back to a defender, then you are no longer able to play that raiding toon (IMO this means log it out). You may then switch between any defenders you like, but are only allowed to control a single defender at this time. Again, my belief is that you may pick and choose which one you want, but should logoff any other dual logged defenders. You may then switch freely between defending toons the same as a single logger... log 'em in one at a time. Oh and my own insertion into that previous discussion is that, if you have a defender dual-logged in your own cradle room and another logged as a raider, and you are happily raiding, if I sneak a raider into your cradle and attack your AFK dual-logged defender, then you are breaking rules and need to log one of those toons out. At this point you must choose to either defend or to raid and ditch the other toon.

The key clarification that was made previously was not the 'log a defender at any time' but it was regarding the 'switching back to a raider' discussion, which was ambiguous.

[BlkMamba]

It probably needs common-sense to be used. I'm sure Tep will come along call us idiots and tell us how it works soon enough.

I think you should have started your owe topic about it Rainswept as I'm not sure what it has to do with dead guy zone holding

i say we put the auto respawn back in. lower it down to 5 minutes

Wouldn't a 5 minuet auto respown for the whole server be like using a sledge hammer to crack a nut in the case of holding a screen with a dead guy?

I'm surprised Tep hasnt put 10 smile's and locked the thread
considering he helped set this form of warfare when the relics 1st came out

fact is people, this has been goin on since day 1 of relic warfare, most the DM's were players at the time
and did this same tatic then, yeah its fustrateing at times, but its legal
if your wanting a decision to be made i wouldnt hold your breath to long
i started reading the thread and i thought back to the day's when we would hold the rooms all day
there was no server resets, it was either deal with it or go do something else.

If someone has the patience to leave there dead toon in a relic room more power to them
i dont have that type of patience

Mamba..

[Bargeld]

Without change, you cannot improve. Just cuz you (they) did it then, doesn't mean it's fine now. Evolve or die.

[Tsavong]

I'm surprised Tep hasnt put 10 smile's and locked the thread
considering he helped set this form of warfare when the relics 1st came out

I was referring to the relogging a character to defend when I said that heh.

if your wanting a decision to be made i wouldnt hold your breath to long

I was not after a decision but a discussion among players as we all do it to some degree and probably all find it annoying at times but we don't talk about it much if ever except in party chat.

[Rainswept]

I was not after a decision but a discussion among players as we all do it to some degree and probably all find it annoying at times but we don't talk about it much if ever except in party chat.

Huh? You quoted a DM and then asked:

So when dose the dead zone holding become an exploit?

[BlkMamba]

wasnt attacking you zerg just saying in general, this has went on from the get go
its happened since the beginning and will prolly continue on till the end

[Chernobyl_Glow]

cutting to the worst case scenario - a dual logger leaves one of his toons dead in your relic room. all that this does is prevent him from raiding with two. the only harm it does you is that you cannot respawn your defenders - and the underlying truth to that is that you are hoping for epic defenders.

basically you want to spawn epics to help you defend. - fair enough. discuss that only. leave all the dual logging, relogging, and bugging topics to other threads.

though no one has said it, the essential complaint of this entire thread is that the dead corpse tactic is preventing you from spawning epics. the problem with threads like this (personally accusational) is that the real issue gets clouded with use of words like "exploit" and relogging and dual logging and bugging relics etc. this has nothing to do with dual logging. if it is deemed illegal for a dual logger then the dead corpse will just be any single logger who needs a potty break. you are solving this problem by dragging irrelevant topics into the thread.

my belief is that the epic defenders are two much of a game changer. if you have them its a huge win. and hence the passionate arguments for and against. instead of randomly spawning 4 epics occasionally, why not always spawn 2. and if you can't keep them alive and we're willing to leave a corpse there then call it what it is. a good tactic that everyone should use. its not an exploit.

we don't leave corpses there when you have epic defenders. and if you have epic defenders you'll never be caught complaining about the corpses. this argument is about the defenders. which are always either under powered (by their absence) or overpowered (by their existence). make the defenders a more moderate influence in the outcome and a lot of these other complaints/tactics/crying/whining will go away.

FYI. I'm as guilty as anyone because I have been shown by teammates and opponents that it is the sensible (or lame) tactic.

we guys all need to learn how to talk nicer to one another on the forums. its not like the players in AO/RK are evil two headed trolls in real life who kick their dogs and speed through school zones. we're trying to play well and win just like you. we're trying to follow the rules just like you.

best,

- Glow -

[Rainswept]

the players in AO/RK are evil two headed trolls in real life who kick their dogs and speed through school zones.

TYVM for my new Sig. Quote out of context FTW!

Seriously though, I think Glow hit the nail on the head, it's about the Epic Defenders.

[Daltian]

The real problem is that I can only raid with one toon and then wait 30 min if I want to switch. Dual loger can raid with 1 toon, die with it, keep the cradle room cleared from guards and raid with different toon. I find it unfair, simple as that.

[Bargeld]

I disagree by 50%

It's about 'defenders' not just epics... look at it from a defender's standpoint (this is only 1 example):

You are out in a group leveling your lvl 35s... Cradle message appears on shout so the team logs defenders. We crush the raiders and they leave a corpse in the cradle room. Because of this, we can no longer go back to the non-faction group mates waiting for us in previous epic leveling area because we assume another incoming raid (i'm sure this happens to all factions who defend). After 10 mins and a single SD raider who gets destroyed, we are still sitting there waiting. This may continue for however long they decide to keep their corpse in the cradle room.

If there was no corpse, regardless of epic spawns, we would at least have the courtesy time of having the 'cradle defeated' on shout. This would allow us to go back to our previous adventures and log our defenders when appropriate. Without ANY defenders due to corpse, we are forced to wait and wait and wait... which is where the dual-log sentiment enter. IF it happens to be a dual-log toon, then those raiders can send 1 fellow in, leave him on the floor, then go about their business leveling or laughing at us as we wait for hours for no reason. say what you want about how this is enforced or what the rules are, etc. But the simple truth remains... we don't ever actually KNOW 100% what the scenario is.

It's not about epics, its about time management and the fun of the relic game.

[Bishop99]

It is funny when you raid, kill all the epic defenders, and then eventually get killed... when you go back about 2 mins later the number of PC defenders doubles (half of them are idle and are just used for a hellball, barbarian roar, fighter KD, or bardsong/cursesong) AND there are also 4 new epic defenders.

I have always thought it was homo to sit dead in the relic room, because it is. But what is even more homo is how people abuse the epic defenders when you DON'T sit dead in the relic room.

I say delete all dual logger's toons, get rid of epic defenders, force spawn dead people, and make the normal guards tougher.

[Bargeld]

The real problem is that I can only raid with one toon and then wait 30 min if I want to switch. Dual loger can raid with 1 toon, die with it, keep the cradle room cleared from guards and raid with different toon. I find it unfair, simple as that.

BTW this has already been ruled upon... Linux said that he will hit them in their XP if he sees it.

[Rainswept]

If there was no corpse, regardless of epic spawns, we would at least have the courtesy time of having the 'cradle defeated' on shout. This would allow us to go back to our previous adventures and log our defenders when appropriate. Without ANY defenders due to corpse, we are forced to wait and wait and wait...

This doesn't make any sense at all. You get the same shout either way.

[Rainswept]

I would say if you planned on going back to a party it's actually courteous to leave a body, since it tell you for certain that the raiders will return. Otherwise you'll just be sitting around wondering if they will come, or having to relog every time.

If someone leaves a body in the room and isn't coming back to raid, that's just wrong and I'd agree it deserves punishment.

[diddy33]

if it's about NPC defenders just get rid of all of them then, just an empty room. that will stop people from holding your rooms, and stop people from spawning epics. problem solved, and you didn't even have to put in a respawn script. .