Defending relics with non-allied toons

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Elagneros
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Re: Defending relics with non-allied toons

Post by Elagneros »

Bargeld wrote:AORK is on the low side of population for whatever reason. Make a presence with your guild, define your hierarchy/leadership/whatever, then play in groups and find some decent new players. This is definately a team play server and your fun level is down with your populations, so fix that.
RK's problem has always been the narrow focus. Dwarf-only seemed to have kept a lot of players out of it in the old days unless they wanted a DwD, to the point where gnomes got added to encourage more players to join. I remember it being the last faction to get a guild when guilds became official. If you're the kind of player who hates dwarves and gnomes, you're not going to go anywhere near the faction. Which is a shame, because there seems to be a good deal of build potential here. Biggest downside is no humans, because the extra feat and skill points can go a long way in some builds. Low Cha is another disadvantage, but IMO that really only hurts sorcerer and bard builds. Personally, I strongly prefer wizards to sorcerers; they may not get as many spells/day, but they have more flexibility by far, and RK looks like it's surprisingly good for Wiz builds, for both gnomes and dwarves. Bards require some creativity, but I haven't gotten around to trying one out yet. So as much as I'd like to try to recruit new members into our guild, I don't really see too many potential members.

I don't know why AO is unpopular these days. My impression is that it used to be the next most popular faction after LA, with only SL being the only other faction that could be second. The "no jobs" complaint can't possibly be the full explanation, because people played AO and SL gladly back when only LA had jobs, particularly the messenger job that boosted speed.

Sometimes I think NS4 was a bit too ambitious for a NWN PW, because I don't think it could get enough players to support 7 factions (now 6). And people just move on to new games over time.
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Alkapwn
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Re: Defending relics with non-allied toons

Post by Alkapwn »

Low Cha is another disadvantage, but IMO that really only hurts sorcerer and bard builds.
Sorcerers i can see but RK can make plenty of excellent DC based wizards though which are more versatile anyhow. But really bards? 16 charisma is not to hard to get.

so RK can make sorcs with 1 less cha mod . Why does that make a RK Sorcerer useless? Pally/sorc's just must suck eh? lol

The biggest hit is cross divine builds. i.e. Str or Dex/Cha pallys,BGs and there is a couple of those in RK that i absolutely hate given my affinity for evil toons. But honestly no matter where you build them they're only effective vs a couple of builds

I honestly think SL has fewer interesting build options then RK but we do just fine. I've been playing SL for about 3 years now and still come up with a new idea here and there.

Every Faction has counters for every faction. There are no glaring OP builds (excluding NC) that can take out an entire faction.
My understanding it's team pvp . You win some you lose some.

And remember . You pick your faction it doesnt pick you :twisted:
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dethonlegs
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Re: Defending relics with non-allied toons

Post by dethonlegs »

If RK are limited to dorfs I dont see a reason why they should be allowed in any other faction.

mining
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Re: Defending relics with non-allied toons

Post by mining »

dethonlegs wrote:If RK are limited to dorfs I dont see a reason why they should be allowed in any other faction.
Oh gods, the grandfathered toons!

Also, CoTs are the absolute best melee in the game all around, but they get outclassed in various aspects by other builds, which is why they're 'balanced'. *cough*.
Bargeld wrote:Overall, I think most would agree that a pure rogue is probably the worst build on the server.

Rufio
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Re: Defending relics with non-allied toons

Post by Rufio »

divine wrath could be nerfed some, sure, but CoTs will still be good no matter what. They get a good feat selection, skill selection, and cross-class options with a full bab, lots of bonus feats, save boosts, and few pre-requisites. You could cut the effectiveness of divine wrath in half and still be a great meleer. Divine wrath looks better on paper than in practice because of the ab cap. High level CoT's hit the ab cap with wrath, haste, and weapon modifier alone. Tone down wrath and then all you have to do is cast prayer and divine favor or get a buff from ava and bard song, and you are right back where you started.

I agree they are the best pure melee class, and NC has access to the best melee builds, but my response to that is NC is the worst spellcasting faction, only rivaled by TC. Cleric is NC's only full casting class, and even though the old Cleric/CoT makes for a nice imploder, that is all we have.

The solutions I see are to just let NC be the best meleers and worst casters, or make CoT's open to all factions as a generic "divine champion" of sorts (SL would have to be accommodated somehow to be able to meet the alignment pre-req) and give NC wizards, (and maybe sorcs for TC while we are at it :D )
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DM_Sultan
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Re: Defending relics with non-allied toons

Post by DM_Sultan »

As "Torm" I say NO to any idea of making Champions of Torm be open. It would draw my wrath, I can assure you, just as any CoT conducting themselves contray to the lawfulness of NC will draw my curse. A Champion of Torm is a disciple of mine (as a diety) and that means lawful, good, protector of the weak, defender of justice, zealot against evil, and these principles shall not be broken.

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frogofpeace
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Re: Defending relics with non-allied toons

Post by frogofpeace »

Praise Torm!
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Shamedmonkey
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Re: Defending relics with non-allied toons

Post by Shamedmonkey »

He primarily means zealot against evil. We'll leave defending the weak to those CLAD sissies.
I have always imagined that when shamed prepares for relic events, he grabs his bull horn, he finds his Napoleon hat, and he settles in for a weekend of barking orders and generally pissing off everyone in the tc/nc coalition. - Burrahobbit

Bargeld
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Re: Defending relics with non-allied toons

Post by Bargeld »

DM_Sultan wrote:As "Torm" I say... A Champion of Torm is a disciple of mine (as a diety) and that means lawful, good, protector of the weak, defender of justice, zealot against evil, and these principles shall not be broken.
There ya have it folks, from the diety himself! CoT should be LG only :lol:
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DM_Sultan
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Re: Defending relics with non-allied toons

Post by DM_Sultan »

Bargeld wrote:DM_Sultan wrote:
As "Torm" I say... A Champion of Torm is a disciple of mine (as a diety) and that means lawful, good, protector of the weak, defender of justice, zealot against evil, and these principles shall not be broken.

There ya have it folks, from the diety himself! CoT should be LG only
Why are you even commenting here? You don't ever play any more. :lol: By the way, did you notice the comma between the words "lawful" and "good"? That makes it different than how you are quoting me. First you quoted me properly with copy and paste and then you mis-quoted me with your statement. Typical evil bait and switch - make something else of the original intention. The evil ones of SL are not to be trusted. It is time for the Zealots of Torm to cursh these spider lovers.

Sultan
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frogofpeace
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Re: Defending relics with non-allied toons

Post by frogofpeace »

Bargeld wrote:
DM_Sultan wrote:As "Torm" I say... A Champion of Torm is a disciple of mine (as a diety) and that means lawful, good, protector of the weak, defender of justice, zealot against evil, and these principles shall not be broken.
There ya have it folks, from the diety himself! CoT should be LG only :lol:
Ha, and you guys need to play a little more chaotic - you're a too effective as a team. No healing each other in combat, everybody play the same class, random party drops for backstabbing, steal each other's weapons ... where's that Fi3nd guy? - he understands playing EVIL! :P
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OpalimTeGolim
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Re: Defending relics with non-allied toons

Post by OpalimTeGolim »

frogofpeace wrote:
Bargeld wrote:
DM_Sultan wrote:As "Torm" I say... A Champion of Torm is a disciple of mine (as a diety) and that means lawful, good, protector of the weak, defender of justice, zealot against evil, and these principles shall not be broken.
There ya have it folks, from the diety himself! CoT should be LG only :lol:
Ha, and you guys need to play a little more chaotic - you're a too effective as a team. No healing each other in combat, everybody play the same class, random party drops for backstabbing, steal each other's weapons ... where's that Fi3nd guy? - he understands playing EVIL! :P
We're mostly Lawful Evil. :wink:

mining
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Re: Defending relics with non-allied toons

Post by mining »

Lawful evil? Too much monk cheese!
Bargeld wrote:Overall, I think most would agree that a pure rogue is probably the worst build on the server.

Ryddwillow
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Re: Defending relics with non-allied toons

Post by Ryddwillow »

The "no jobs" complaint can't possibly be the full explanation, because people played AO and SL gladly back when only LA had jobs, particularly the messenger job that boosted speed.
It is so true, except for RK and explain in a few. When the server was wiped and LA became obsolete the guilds from there went to RK and AO. The factions of RK were limited to Dwarf and gnome only (every other faction can use the same dwarf and gnome as RK). In building your new toon in RK meant some things as a hardship for some. When you can build an awesome bard in LA meant I had to transfer my skills as a bard player to very limited races in RK doesn't work. The segment continues on to other classes. The jobs in RK were great until the nerf of them, but that is another argument. I mean I can build toons in any faction to fit but not has been here like me so, some think it is a personal insult to them when the nerf stick comes down. Ok ppl leave.

AO period has no jobs and a new person will leave quickly if no jobs. Old ppl know they have a disadvantage when fighting another faction with job bonuses. I mean it is not too hard to figure out.(been here the longest besides some like 2 months earlier.) The wizard nerfed hit AO hard and the sd, Pally i could see but the other 2 no clue since AO was out of the picture when the wiped happened and it was LA.

So you can draw your own conclusions as to why the server is lopsided, but when 4 guilds vacate, then I wonder? Conclusion is that other ppl will flock to MA and SL or NC and TC, Balance?

divine wrath could be nerfed some, sure, but CoTs will still be good no matter what. They get a good feat selection, skill selection, and cross-class options with a full bab, lots of bonus feats, save boosts, and few pre-requisites. You could cut the effectiveness of divine wrath in half and still be a great meleer. Divine wrath looks better on paper than in practice because of the ab cap. High level CoT's hit the ab cap with wrath, haste, and weapon modifier alone. Tone down wrath and then all you have to do is cast prayer and divine favor or get a buff from ava and bard song, and you are right back where you started.
Make a mage or sd or a melee tank, really never had problems with cots.

Sorcerers i can see but RK can make plenty of excellent DC based wizards though which are more versatile anyhow. But really bards? 16 charisma is not to hard to get.
Name the last good bard from RK? I have to use 1 class of dwarf to keep my chr. And how many classes in SL can you say for that? Enough said about bards

I honestly think SL has fewer interesting build options then RK but we do just fine. I've been playing SL for about 3 years now and still come up with a new idea here and there.
Ye whined about assassin being under powered, now you cannot find another build to make? madd needs a few good men since they vanished. Ye have all the relics, quityourbitchin already.

RK's problem has always been the narrow focus. Dwarf-only seemed to have kept a lot of players out of it in the old days unless they wanted a DwD, to the point where gnomes got added to encourage more players to join. I remember it being the last faction to get a guild when guilds became official. If you're the kind of player who hates dwarves and gnomes, you're not going to go anywhere near the faction. Which is a shame, because there seems to be a good deal of build potential here. Biggest downside is no humans, because the extra feat and skill points can go a long way in some builds. Low Cha is another disadvantage, but IMO that really only hurts sorcerer and bard builds. Personally, I strongly prefer wizards to sorcerers; they may not get as many spells/day, but they have more flexibility by far, and RK looks like it's surprisingly good for Wiz builds, for both gnomes and dwarves. Bards require some creativity, but I haven't gotten around to trying one out yet. So as much as I'd like to try to recruit new members into our guild, I don't really see too many potential members.
I mean they really only successful raiding guild from RK was BB and of course the guilds that are there now but they are gone. Yes we say there is a cycle here, one faction(or 2) seem to dominate but, do we ask why?

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Re: Defending relics with non-allied toons

Post by Rufio »

Ryddwillow wrote: Name the last good bard from RK? I have to use 1 class of dwarf to keep my chr. And how many classes in SL can you say for that? Enough said about bards
Don't forget gnomes. Tinker gnomes actually have some good stats to build a dexer bard with, and it would get small size bonuses, giving it 1 more ab and ac than a drow bard. It could be built statistically superior to a drow bard if you are ok with parting with keen senses.
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