The death hold zone thing

[Charles I]

I have suggested before, and I am suggesting again. If we have a war, we should have POWs. Someone dies from PK in relic room, give them 1 minute for a friendly to revive. After 1 minute, BAM! send them to POW camp. The POW camp should be a no PvP, no resting, no recall, anti-magic area. It should suck to be a POW. Have a neutral liaison in Avendell where factions can ransom the character back for say 10,000 gp per level (maybe 100,000). Or they can rot in POW camp for 1 hour (game hour) per level until released through a behind the scenes prisoner exchange. (No actual exchange take place, just a way to justify it). Always the option to respawn before the 1 minute. Maybe a POW counter in Ave next to the relic counter?

[Dalan]

The POW idea, and others very like it, have been discussed before. Good ideas, yes.

IIRC, there is a huge amount of DEV work involved to make it happen.

Lokey, Linux ? How likely is something like this could go ingame?

[Tru3Fals3]

Maybe the AO job could be clearing the corpses out of relic rooms.

Bring out yer dead! *clang*

Wait I'm not dead yet!

yes you are *bashes crazy on the head*

[Tru3Fals3]

The POW idea, and others very like it, have been discussed before. Good ideas, yes.

IIRC, there is a huge amount of DEV work involved to make it happen.

Lokey, Linux ? How likely is something like this could go ingame?

as likely as AO Jobs...

[Daltian]

If I see a dual logged player lying dead in a relic room for 5-10 minutes... watch out, because someone's losing a lot of XP

Now if i could only get a bell to summon Linux when he is needed.



edit: By saying this I am not insinuating that Linux is an Ox. To be clear, I am not saying he isn't one either if he likes to be one. *hides*

[Daltian]

A force spawn script was put in awhile back, and most (if not all) players hated it, and the force spawn was taken out.

The main reason it was taken out : It had a negative fun factor for players new to the server. (if your toon died pvm, and you were waiting for a rescue, you had only so much time before your toon was force spawned)

Do you all wish to see another force spawn script put into the server?

Can there be force spawn script running only in cradle rooms?

[burrahobbit]

If I see a dual logged player lying dead in a relic room for 5-10 minutes... watch out, because someone's losing a lot of XP

Your not on enough, it happends almost everytime there is a raid......

Dont take XP, delete the char....

I think if we up the penalties for being an a$$ hat, the a$$ hats will change or even better, quit.

[weasel423]

If I see a dual logged player lying dead in a relic room for 5-10 minutes... watch out, because someone's losing a lot of XP

Your not on enough, it happends almost everytime there is a raid......

Dont take XP, delete the char....

I think if we up the penalties for being an a$$ hat, the a$$ hats will change or even better, quit.

[Lokey]

The POW idea, and others very like it, have been discussed before. Good ideas, yes.

IIRC, there is a huge amount of DEV work involved to make it happen.

Lokey, Linux ? How likely is something like this could go ingame?

Not very. If I touch relics at all the xp bonus is gone. So I take it no one wants me to do anything with them?

[cRaZy8or5e]

The POW idea, and others very like it, have been discussed before. Good ideas, yes.

IIRC, there is a huge amount of DEV work involved to make it happen.

Lokey, Linux ? How likely is something like this could go ingame?

Not very. If I touch relics at all the xp bonus is gone. So I take it no one wants me to do anything with them?

Do your worst

[Eldaquen]

Holding a cleared relic room has been part of the server and relic war since well before I arrived. The valid question that seems to have been raised for discussion is how long does holding the zone become too long or excessive. I do not believe 30 minutes is too long. From the defenders side, it would seem like an eternity: just waiting around for action is like watching the grass grow. However, from the raiders standpoint 30 minutes may not be enough time. Raiders have a lot to consider, and rushing back after a defeat tends to result in another defeat. Dying over and over against a well defended relic cradle is not much fun either, especially once a preception sets in that the attempt will not be successful. A good raid attempt involves massing forces, getting everyone to a rally point, reviewing combat log for what went wrong, adjust plans, and buffing before going at it again. All of these things takes time. Then add in RL concerns and those players waiting for the 30 minute time limit to expire, in order to change toons, just delays the next attempt even long.

Yes waiting around for raiders to come back when a dead toon is holding relic room is not much fun. However, it does provide opportunity for defenders to send out scouts to locate raiders rally point and attempt to pk those unbuffed raiders who arrived early. I am able to recall many times when a defender rejoyced after finding and slaying potential unprepared raiders at a rally point.

So how long is too long? I would suggest depends on situation. Which I believe game mechanics will never be able to analyze and account for. There are too many examples or situations to even begin to list to attempt to validate this statement.

I believe this actually falls under the commandment (paraphrased) covering hampering the fun of the community, which is best policed by the staff.

Part of this issue that has not been raised yet is why do people hold a relic room. Again too many examples to list that could to cover the gambit of possibilities.

I do have 3 suggestions to attempt to alleviate the issue. One, if there is someone holding the zone for more than 30 minutes and no raider has tapped the cradle for x amount of time (15, 20, 25 minutes, whatever seems appropriate), then the timer on the relic cradle extends. This would benefit both sides as raiders allowed to continue to hold relic room while allowing defenders time to relog to hunt xp or whatever (during the down time) and allow more time for defenders to relog and buff after down time is over. As soon as cradle is tapped the time reverts back to standard time limit.

The second suggestion is if server resets while raiders are carrying relics but are still either inside enemy faction's relic room or 1 (or 2) maps away, then the stolen relics are returned to that enemy faction's cradle. This would prevent a server reset from being used as a get relic out exploit in conjunction with hold the relic room for an extended period of time until a reset is within 10 minutes away. This would benefit both sides as it would continue the pvp experience, which I understand is the reason why people participate in the relic wars to begin with.

Third suggestion, if a raider is holding an empty cradle room for extended period of time without another recent cradle tap attempt (again for x amount of time, whatever seems appropriate), then diviner gives warning of when and where raiders enter the besiged faction. This would allow defenders who are tired of waiting due to inactivity to go do something else until raid begins anew and give defender enough warning to relog defender build and buff. (I do not suggest implementing with the first suggestion, gave as an either/or choice not both at once).

Thought of another suggestion: use common sense but credit goes to another who stated such in another thread.

[Eldaquen]

There is another side to this issue, defenders have more going in their favor that raiders do. One of the factors in favor of raiders is controlling when action happens, while defenders must be reactionary. Any change, even the ones I suggest would tip the scales even farther in favor of defenders. Which is a strong arguement not to make a change regarding this issue, and use term issue loosy not claiming there is an issue to be resolved just one being discussed.

Along the same lines is defenders holding epics NPC's in relic room. If a change is deemed necessary to what happens when a dead raiders holds a cleared zone, then would only be fair to make changes to defenders holding zone when epic NPC's are in cradle room.

[LinuxPup]

The main thing is, dual logging is really only for multiple people... if I could ban/stop all players from dual logging I would, but there are legitimate cases where there are two or more players using the same IP, and we don't want to stop those folks. I think it generally gives an unfair advantage when a single player is able to hold a map and raid at the same time, and that's the nonsense I aim to stop.

[Tsavong]

Any change, even the ones I suggest would tip the scales even farther in favor of defenders.

Thats a good point there.

So would I be right in saying that the general opinion here is that a player can hold a screen clear for an indefinite period of time with a dead toon is ok if said player is only using the one toon,
But if the player was multi boxing and had one toon dead and another raiding that would be unfair?

[Rainswept]

I guess people look at the dual logging thing quite a bit differently than I do. I count toons, and don't sit around wondering how many people are sitting at home on the computers. In fact, I'd say that in most cases (Not all, there are a couple out there who are very good at dual logging) 1 dual logger is less effective than 2 players. In fact Dual loggers frequently build toons to support each other, and if one half of that dual loggers little team is left dead on the floor, chances are that players remaining toon is going to have a hole in the build somewhere. Making it a rule that they can't leave a toon dead would do nothing more than keep their little team intact, I don't think they'll mind terribly.


Eldaquen: There are some interesting suggestions in your posts, but keep in mind that it's already been established that the coding of the relics is too much of a mess to be altered in any way at this point, so things like that are never going to happen, good ideas or not. I've suggested myself the idea about having the relics return to the last cradle they were pulled from, and was reminded that it's not something that can be changed.

If I were going to change anything about the raiding/defending rules it would be to clarify and maybe simplify the rule about swapping between toons. This causes far more confusion and accusations of rulebreaking than other factors in raiding. Both sides are always trying to figure "Gee, I raided with toon A, I defended with toon B, can I now swap to toon C to raid or defend somewhere else? Did that other player swap to use his toon C? I was chasing a guy with my relic all the way back to his territory, does that count as defending or raiding? Can I use toon A to raid LA, and toon B to raid SL ?" Yesterday there was an IO toon defending NC (and dropping the relic to the NC toons), does that count as a raiding toon or a defending toon?

It's a mess and no one seems to understand it to the satisfaction of others. It'd be so much simpler to say "Swap if you like" or "Once involved in pvp, you cannot change toons to pvp without taking a 30 minute break"