My oppinion on how incredibly unbalanced items are.

Revenge · Post by **Revenge** » Mon May 03, 2004 11:07 am

Ack... Just yesterday I was shown the problem... 1 human cleric at lvl 5 or 6 up against 3 lvl 5 fighters and fighter/rogues. She should have been an easy kill... Except she kept summoning a lvl 12 Latern Archon, which had a good 3 or 4 spells that could bring any one of us from full hp to about 2 or 3 (so if we were already injured we'd get knocked out or killed). Ok, so we all die the first time.

The second time we try to wear her out. We spread out an run around as the archon hits us, while we use potions on ourselves and kits on anyone who gets KO'd... Nope, no go... The archon is still lvl 12, and none of us can get past it's AC except on a crit. What's more as that she's packing as many summons per day as she can, and so she recast the latern archon a good 3 or so times to recharge it's spells. At one point she decided that she need MORE power (it scared me to think that a summon twice her level wasn't the most powerful thing she could call up), and summons a big [censored] bear thing....

XxDkCobraxX · Post by **XxDkCobraxX** » Mon May 03, 2004 11:34 am

maybe it teaches you not to mess with people more than once if you get stomped the first time? the summons that druids and clerics get are powerful even at low level, as they should be

Revenge · Post by **Revenge** » Mon May 03, 2004 11:44 am

Oh yes, great idea... Let's all just give up! Enemies running all over SL territory though and they are all way more powerful than us... Hmmm let's all go hide inside our faction HQ for a month!!!! Damn, trying to play smarter to take down this foe was such a BAD idea wasn't? God gimme a break...

The fight was in good humour, and we actually arranged through tells to meet again and face off once more. That doesn't change the fact that one very difficult took out me and 2 more very difficults with little to no effort due soley to her ability summon things twice her level...

Spooky · Post by **Spooky** » Mon May 03, 2004 12:39 pm

For all of those saying that spellcasters rule and fighters suck etc i got one thing to say..last night 2 dwarven defenders broke into MA...at first i tried to take em alone (cleric lvl 10)...i started running like a chicken...then a friend (Rogue/SD) went to kill em alone...died too..then i buffed,my friend buffed (wow...ns4 got potions,yeah...) and we waited..once they came in i stunned em while sneak attacks were being lethal...was not an easy fight i turned to melee really fast but at last we managed to kill em.there was an okie hepling us too but was too low lvl for them..then we just ressed and they left..the point is that all this time Developers are trying to make you all understand its time to use PARTY!i would of never done it without my friend neither he would without me..forget all about ns3 builds (weapon focus/imp critical and VII gain strenght so my ydb hits)...now its time to think of ur saves,ur SR,ur friends...

Chimaira · Post by **Chimaira** » Tue May 04, 2004 10:34 am

Think of your saves all you want, use all the save increasing gear, get all the save increasing feats.
When I cast FoD your gonna die unless your a cleric with death ward or a mage with spell mantle at least 40% of the time wheter you like it or not.
And when you team up and 3 of your melee buddies that are very difficult to me keep knocking me down my celestial summon will chop them apart like a bunch of gingerbread men unless hes being smart and running 40 miles to get the next best effy.

Joran · Post by **Joran** » Tue May 04, 2004 12:34 pm

One of the main issues about the overpowering nature of the various caster classes is with the summons - they do need to be reworked to be more in line with the rest of the game. Unfortunately, that's a lot of work and takes a while to implement. But, when finished it will definitely help. Not to keep beating a dead horse, but these are the kind of things we wanted to find out and change during beta...

Chimaira · Post by **Chimaira** » Tue May 04, 2004 2:03 pm

I dont agree with that even tho its usually my summon that gets the kill O_o.

Of course the lvl 8 summon is a bit too strong for its duration and level, but if a caster was easier to kill, and a tank could actually use more AC gear so the summon would be barely able to hit him, and if it didnt take 1-2 FoDs before the fighters dead then a beefy summon would suddenly be nothing but cannon fodder.

TC-GTRF · Post by **TC-GTRF** » Tue May 04, 2004 2:16 pm

Chimaira wrote:I dont agree with that even tho its usually my summon that gets the kill O_o.

Of course the lvl 8 summon is a bit too strong for its duration and level, but if a caster was easier to kill, and a tank could actually use more AC gear so the summon would be barely able to hit him, and if it didnt take 1-2 FoDs before the fighters dead then a beefy summon would suddenly be nothing but cannon fodder.

No, no, no. The idea is *not* to make everybody Uber. That was NS_3. The idea is to allow for a gradual increase in power with each player having strengths and weaknesses at each level. If the summons makes the caster too powerful, bring the caster down, don't bring everyone else up.

TC

Spooky · Post by **Spooky** » Tue May 04, 2004 2:21 pm

but chimaira.somoene who would bring 3 only melee chars in a fight with a person who summons a lvl 8-9 summon is stupid...i would of asked for someone with the same summon,a mage too..maybe a rogue...even cleric's TS cant detect a good rogue...so either u will need to come with a ranger/druid with good spot or risk..

Revenge · Post by **Revenge** » Tue May 04, 2004 2:28 pm

I was the rogue, there was nobody else, and we arranged where to mee the second time through tells because we had had so much fun the first time round.

Chimaira · Post by **Chimaira** » Tue May 04, 2004 2:28 pm

The only way to bring the caster down other then allowing fighters to get their saves up is to ban death magic and hold spells.
I dont like that idea...

And Spooky, your basicly proving that anyone needs a caster in their team to survive, thats enforcing partying onto others, many dont like it, and many will play a mage or cleric since they wont have that problem then.
Any cleric that is half decent and knows TS is nerfed WILL spot a rogue since hes smart enough to max out listen. Other then that both clerics and mages have a summon with TS, should the balor get changed against since 3.5E monster rules dont work in PvP then I know I will max listen and most likely spot any rogue.

Spooky · Post by **Spooky** » Wed May 05, 2004 9:01 am

Well actually a spellcaster is essential against a buffed party,even a buffed char..u cant kill someone same lvl with buffs unless ur buffed too..and its not "forcing" the ppl to a party,this whole mod was made for partying with ppl,if someone wants solo he can go back to ns3 which is wiped and ready to be explored again.everyone needs a party and every decent party needs buffs,either its from potions or from spellcasters.and lets say everyone picks clerics and mages,smart ppl will soon find the weaknesses and make other classes that combined can spread disaster.Try fighting 2 assasins and 1 fighter.if the assasin hits u without mind immunity ur almost 50% vulnerable to its death attack,imagine with both...ull sometime be stunned and then...

Æ · Post by Æ » Wed May 05, 2004 10:14 am

I agree with you Chim that the saves need to be raised some so that there's at least SOME chance of survival lol

But... on the other thing...
Concentration, Spellcraft, and maybe heal or discipline == cleric skill points used up, they dont' get alot like wizards and rogues..

I love all these people who say to put points on listen just to spot rogues... doesn't make sense to sacrifice an important skill which applies to more varied and common situations, for something you only use in a very specific circumstance.... I've been hearing this alot lately, but it's along the lines of telling a strength fighter to use a bow for mages *cough* }: P

Chimaira · Post by **Chimaira** » Wed May 05, 2004 10:52 am

Spooky wrote:Well actually a spellcaster is essential against a buffed party,even a buffed char..u cant kill someone same lvl with buffs unless ur buffed too..and its not "forcing" the ppl to a party,this whole mod was made for partying with ppl,if someone wants solo he can go back to ns3 which is wiped and ready to be explored again.everyone needs a party and every decent party needs buffs,either its from potions or from spellcasters.and lets say everyone picks clerics and mages,smart ppl will soon find the weaknesses and make other classes that combined can spread disaster.Try fighting 2 assasins and 1 fighter.if the assasin hits u without mind immunity ur almost 50% vulnerable to its death attack,imagine with both...ull sometime be stunned and then...

You have obviously never played an assassin, either that or you dont have a freaking clue on how to land a death attack.
Death attack is the hardest thing to pull off right after being a fighter and not complaining about the retarded items.
everyone can have 1 fort, and not be mind immu, and no assassin will be overpowering since if they were people would make druids/clerics(Geez any point? Every assassin is evil, all u need is PFA: Evil lol), just max listen and no assassin would have a chance of pulling off a death attack, as soon as your even moving it doesnt work. Right now casters are overpowering and the only way to counter it is to be a caster yourself. And you dont even understand the whole point, the only sense coming out of your post is that any party needs buffs. No fighter has a buff that a cleric, sorcerer, wizard, paladin or bard would need. Whats the point of partying with a fighter when he does like 8 damage per hit and eats up 10 XP per kill?

And AE, intelligence is an important stat and not there for nothing. Druids can afford being stupid(altho its...well stupid lol when u cant get IKD) but fighters, clerics and sorcerers all need a few points in there.

Æ · Post by Æ » Wed May 05, 2004 11:29 am

to put any more than 10 intelligence into a cleric or sorc would be a waste of stat points... although yeah, all my fighters have 13 int

And I totally agree that no one wants to party with a fighter... I'm lvl 17 now, all solo, because none of the FotS seem to be in LA with me like they said they would(!!!) and because no stranger seems to want to party with me. Spooky, make a fighter and try to get a cleric or mage to go anywhere with you, they're just thinking "I don't need you, I can do it all on my own without you taking any of my xp"... and stop contradicting your own guild members damn it! (lol j/k)

Let's see, maybe after the summons are turned back down, then maybe I can get a caster to join with me because then they'll need a tank (if the summons are short enough or whatever)