You be the dev: XP for Kill Formulae omgthissucks

[Rufio]

Just to clarify, a level 39 ecl 3 toon is not the equivalent of a level 42 toon. It is still treated as a level 39 toon for exp calculations, it just gets 30% less exp than an ecl 0 toon.

But I do agree with what you are saying bargeld

[Shadowalker]

Good points and perspectives by both Monkey and Bargeld there.

A few years of exposure to Bargeld (No put it back on ) has weeded a bit of the Monkey out of me, but its not gone. I guess im just a happy slut who finds something to enjoy in most situations.

[mining]

Also worth noting: In an ideal world 40 would be faster, but also require you to challenge yourself. At the moment CR = level is a waste of time, especially as your level gets higher. In an ideal world, a large group of 35s would be able to get levels at a sufficient rate to feel like they've achieved something.

[dethonlegs]

I agree 100% with Bargeld on this. I come here for the PVP, not the leveling / grinding experience. There are other PVP servers out there, however this is the most balanced and well thought out by far.

I know PVP is not the sole focus of the devs here, however i'd like to suggest a few things that other places are doing that are attracting a much larger player base right now:
* solo lvl to 40 in a day. Got a crazy build that you would like to try out? Just go for it. No need to be as extreme as this as it detracts from other aspects of the server, but it's better than a 2 month grind. Whats the sweet spot? I don't know. Perhaps a week?
* A sandpit area where you can try out builds. Yes you can do this offline, however given the numerous class, race, spell, feat and token changes it's very hard for a noob to get it right. There is a really steep learning curve here and it took me years to catch up to everyone else. Not a great incentive for the newcomer.
* not xp related, however other secondary pvp activity such as a no penalty arena accessible from anywhere and a few 'king of the hill' type spots around the place.

I dont want to second guess the devs on what their goals are, however when I see other crappy servers with so many more people it makes me think what are they doing that could be done better here?

[Dazrield]

I dont want to second guess the devs on what their goals are, however when I see other crappy servers with so many more people it makes me think what are they doing that could be done better here?

As someone that's played on those crappy servers I can tell you what it probably is.. it's the grind here. And not the grind for xp.. it's not that bad here at all, I've seen much harder. It's the gear grind that's so intimidating. I've been back for a few months now, and play here when I can as does my girlfriend. We both have 1 level 40 and a few other builds we're working on. Our first level 40's will probably not be equipped with the gear we want for months from now.. if ever.

That's an awful lot of investing for just 1 character.. when the PvP here really needs a few for defending and raiding and such. I don't mind that things are hard to get or that it takes large groups to get them.. but my playing time doesn't seem to match up with the groups that go to find that stuff(I'm sure anyone who plays tues-thurs is sick of Tremor yelling out ever couple of hours for a lvl 40 party :p).

I agree with deathonlegs that it'd also be very nice to have a testing module available or testing server where we could level up a toon with book options, gear, and maybe some rooms with a few nasties in them to test it on.

[mining]

I dont want to second guess the devs on what their goals are, however when I see other crappy servers with so many more people it makes me think what are they doing that could be done better here?

As someone that's played on those crappy servers I can tell you what it probably is.. it's the grind here. And not the grind for xp.. it's not that bad here at all, I've seen much harder. It's the gear grind that's so intimidating. I've been back for a few months now, and play here when I can as does my girlfriend. We both have 1 level 40 and a few other builds we're working on. Our first level 40's will probably not be equipped with the gear we want for months from now.. if ever.

That's an awful lot of investing for just 1 character.. when the PvP here really needs a few for defending and raiding and such. I don't mind that things are hard to get or that it takes large groups to get them.. but my playing time doesn't seem to match up with the groups that go to find that stuff(I'm sure anyone who plays tues-thurs is sick of Tremor yelling out ever couple of hours for a lvl 40 party :p).

I agree with deathonlegs that it'd also be very nice to have a testing module available or testing server where we could level up a toon with book options, gear, and maybe some rooms with a few nasties in them to test it on.

The concept of the gear grind intrigues me, because I know of a lot of players with more gear than they have toons to level for, and vice versa.

I know that TCNC runs a weekly high level party - thats certainly good for getting gear.

There's always some things that will be scarce, but I'd like to think there's "common" variants that are 99% the same but maybe lack 1 saves or 1 AB or the damage typing you want.

[dethonlegs]

And not the grind for xp.. it's not that bad here at all, I've seen much harder.

I've seen much harder grinds too, but only on RP servers, not PVP. Thus my question on what sort of balance the devs want between time leveling and PVPing.

As for gear, yes it's hard at the start. I'm pretty sure any clan member from your faction will help you out with most of what you need. If your MA you can ask me.

[Rufio]

Gear scarcity depends on how many toons you have, how long you have played, and how much time you get out of dwarves and try out other planes. Personally, I don't build lots of new toons and I like to spend time in the challenging planes, so I don't have a hard time gearing up. Some items like lolth and pelor rings that every single toon can use, and use 2 of, no one will ever be able to give to all of their builds, but those items make hunting for gear interesting.

The thing is, aside from weapons, the rare drops aren't that much more powerful than some very common items. Crafted gear is amazing, crafted amulets, belts, and gloves/bracers are a must for most builds, and helms, cloaks, and boots can be very useful. IA and crafted armors and shields have the same AC and physical DR as the rarest drops, which are the most important parts about a level 30 armor. Having rings of kultach won't give much of an advantage over rings of slavery, a level 16 item, and it is the norm to use helms from sunken at level 40. One of the few things I go out to actively farm for my builds are boots. Generally I just focus on a weapon that I already own, and gear up with the best stuff I have, and I don't feel at a disadvantage if I am not wearing the rarest of items. My advice for new players is to make friends with someone who has crafters, offer to trade them a high level item that you can't use on your particular build for crafted items, and offer to front the cost of the gold. On my first few builds, I was constantly offering up my rare stuff for slightly less rare items that I needed, and I ended up being able to suit them up quite nicely. If you stay in dwarf home all day long until you reach 40 though, you won't end up with any good drops, and you won't have anything to trade.

[Dazrield]

I know that TCNC runs a weekly high level party - thats certainly good for getting gear.

Yeah, I work that night.. in the summers I get off early sometimes, but now that school is back in session I can't. Curse of driving taxi.

There's always some things that will be scarce, but I'd like to think there's "common" variants that are 99% the same but maybe lack 1 saves or 1 AB or the damage typing you want.

Actually without that rare gear you can end up with about 5 saves difference.. along with less damage, less AB, less regen.

Gear scarcity depends on how many toons you have, how long you have played, and how much time you get out of dwarves and try out other planes.

How long someone has played is the key factor. Like.. was the person around when epic runs were going out pretty much nightly or did you start later on where it's a weekly thing. I've been back playing for months and played quite a bit. Only boss killing parties I've made it to have been 1 DE run which was nice, and 1 Abyss run that went horribly wrong.

I'm not counting things like Shadowplane where 2 players can just take down the bosses.. talkin about the big ones where the loot is really nice.

The thing is, aside from weapons, the rare drops aren't that much more powerful than some very common items.

They are when you use a few of them on the same build wisely.

[mining]

Yeah, can be rough if you work bad times - I'm in aus, so often missed runs and stuff. I think the main thing in that respect is to be proactive - a lot of the time if you plan out a group of people who are cool to visit epic areas you can do quite well.

Re: figures differences, adding it all up... I guess the stuff you really miss have is Rings of Lloth (which you shouldn't really plan on having), a +7/8 weapon (what, HA longsword, Durzagon Axe, G1 Sword, Pelor Katana (ok, thats rough, not many great level 30 katanas? Oh, no, there's the Shadowrazor. Bit rough to get, but doable with 3-4) and... I guess dagger? Its Lloth or DE piddly +6). Other than that, most gear is reasonable to get or has a feasible mid level alternative.

The big ticket rare stuff that you should never plan around is basically Rings of Lloth and epic end game boss gear. Everything else is obtainable with a reasonable party of 2-4 people.

If there's a really huge exception, I'd be interested in hearing it, but I'd say that gear isn't terrible to get at the moment.

[northstar_08]

I consider myself a farmer. A lot of really useful gear is possible with a very small party. As people already mentioned, defeating pelor, G1, or lloth with just a few toons will be very difficult but only a very small percentage of people have access to this gear.

As others mentioned Crafted Gear is amazing. Everyone of my toons wears a crafted amulet. I personally think there is no better amulet in the game. 9/10 of my toons wear a crafted belt. Crafted boots are really good. Crafted cloaks are useful. Basically, crafted gear would get you most of what you need. Spotters could use a crafted helm. Crafted shields are light if u do not have much strength. And no farming is needed for these items. I cannot emphasize enough how important and useful crafted gear is.

Some really useful items can be obtained with a very small party (I do it while dual logging 2 toons). My 2 toons are built for the sole purpose of obtaining this gear but I think that 4 reasonably built toons could do the same thing.

Kultach Rings -> All u need is a good tank and someone to do damage and a little strategy and a LOT of patience. Drops really nice rings (not as good as Pelor or Lloth) that I have on all my toons. There is no reason why a party of 4 with decent players could not obtain these BUT one of these players really needs to be a tank

Black Lord -> Much harder but again I can do it while dual logged. Without patience, you will die here but drops a nice robe, the best +8 Short Sword and a fantastic shield (hipsers especially will like this). Don't try this before you have figured out some good strategies on the regular minions. Once you have this figured out, go for the boss. Boss can be hard to kill but again, some strategy and a way to kill the boss (normally damage shields or magic but really high AB toons could do it). Again, without patience, you will die. Without spending time figuring out how to kill minions first, you will die.

White Lord -> Again, all it takes is patience. A great robe and probably the best scythe. Also great boots dropped by a glimmer skins and a great Kama. Not that difficult at all but again need patience and ideally being able to kill from a distance. There is a really easy trick to killing the white lord (that I will not post) but only people with patience could figure it out.

Undead Dragon in HOD -> This can be a bit tougher unless you have a great tank. Again, can be done with a small party and drops a phenomenal Charisma based cloak

For other items you really just need patience. You don’t need to be able to beat bosses to get them. As someone mentioned, a helm that drops in Sunken isle is great for many builds. Most of my builds use this helm. It is not hard to get at all through farming or a leveling party although the mobs can be tough (hipsers and magic users)

DWP, Positive and Negative all have really nice regular enemy drops as long as you have about 4 people who are EXTREMELY patient. Drops are rare but they are good. Just take your time and expect to die the first few times while you figure things out

Probably the most important thing to survive these areas is to where the right type of equipment. If you can use a shield, you must swap your shield depending on the enemy you are facing. Again, all comes with experience and patience above all else. You can get away with wearing the wrong equipment if you only draw one or 2 enemies to you at a time. Patience is rewarded.

Goes without saying that a Cleric is almost essential in all these parties.

Anyway, I hope some of what I said helps

[northstar_08]

Quick amendment to the above post. Please do not go out and try to kill the bosses right away. It is really meant as a guide. Spend a lot of time on the non boss screens to figure the enemies out before trying a boss. If you do this, you will Survive. If you already are wearing crafted gear, your chances of survival are much better

Also, by far the hardest boss above (imo) is the dark lord. This is only because the point where you start on the black lord screen can be very overwhelming. if you survive the initial onslaught so that you can rest again, you will be fine. Obviously, getting a good starting spawn (I have probably said too much already but I can just see the blood splatters now) is essential. You will 100% die unless you get a good starting spawn

[Midterm]

I've only been on this server for 1 and a half years, and believe it or not, most of my gear has been gotten by myself. I do not dual log, nor do I borrow gear from people.

Let's assume now that you are a complete newbie to the server.

1. Make a Cleric, no exceptions.

Make this a AC-based cleric. I strongly suggest making it a divine might/shield cleric as well, since you can easily hit 70 AC with little gear. 70 AC will get you past Dwarf Home, and most of HoD, which by far have the best xp/gear to time ratio. Soloing them can also be possible with this build.

2. Go to Positive Plane using your cleric.

This is the next step everyone should take. Give me any cleric build, no matter how bad it is, and I assure you I can solo it in posi plane without any problems. Posi plane gear fits everyone. Now, getting used to the mobs and understanding their threat level may be difficult at first, but once you understand how to solo every mob, you'll be swimming in gear (and getting to 40 at the same time).

3. Make a new character, this time a DR tank.

Bonus points if it has a damage shield. Using your Posi gear that you've farmed, start soloing every area. Every faction has a version of their DR tank: NC/TC get shifter(golems), MA/SL get palemasters, and AO/RK get DWDs. There is no area you cannot farm with a DR tank - it just depends on your patience, your number of heal pots, and your cunning. Start learning all the mobs DR and damage types, and learn to switch equipment around to kill them. If you can't kill them with your current equipment, think like Megaman.

(If you don't know what I'm talking about, Megaman in video games is a sidescroller with the premise that every time you defeat a boss, you pick up their weapon. You can choose the order of bosses in any order you wish - therefore a boss that is super hard might be super easy with the right weapon from another boss)

[Dazrield]

That's probably my problem... I play games like these instead of WoW or other mainstream games because I don't want to do the exact same character with the exact same strategy as every other person on the server has done.

[Ajantis.]

We're talking about two different things here... if the concern now is epic gear, and if the XP formulas were enhanced, you'd be able to get what you want at lvl 40 easier? Wouldn't that solve two complaints?

My gear choices for builds have generally been relied upon what I had in inventory already. I started with a monk and/or a cleric that needn't specialized gear. Through adventuring I "won" a Lumi Smiter, then built a build around it, later i found a voidmind spear, then built something around that... and the cycle continues to this day.