Counterspell: How does it work exactly?

JesterOI · Post by **JesterOI** » Sat May 15, 2004 11:59 pm

What spells does it require?
Do sorcerors really make a better anti-mage class than wizards?

Agifem · Post by **Agifem** » Sun May 16, 2004 1:03 am

Signature is better than last time, Jester. But I'm wondering how someone who has been playing NS so long doesn't know about Counterspell.

To counter a spell, you must either have the same spell or have the appropriate counterspell. Since sorc cast on the fly, they almost always have an appropriate counterspell ready, so yes, they are far better counterspellers.

JesterOI · Post by **JesterOI** » Sun May 16, 2004 2:02 am

I have just never used or bothered asking before.

So is it true that memorized dispels can't be used as counterspells?

Kirg · Post by **Kirg** » Sun May 16, 2004 6:31 am

Afaik Mordekainens Disjunction can be used for every counterspell. But not dispels.

BR

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Sun May 16, 2004 7:26 am

At one point (and according to the manual), Lesser Dispel, Dispel, Greater Dispel, and Mords were all universal counterspells, but only vs the same level or lower. Any spell could also be countered by itself (so IGMS would counter IGMS), or by one of the special counter spells listed in the spell description.

The Spellcraft check only really needs to succeed in identifying the spell being cast, & since the DC cap for identifying a lvl 9 spell is only 24 (15 + level of the spell), it isn't difficult to make.

As a sorc really only needs to have the counterspell in their known spells & get more spells/day than a wiz, the chances are wiz will run out of spells long before the sorc.

If I remember correctly, counterspelling was "broken" in the patch prior to 1.61, but got fixed in either 1.61 or 1.62. Judging from Friday's raid on Garagoth, it seems to be working properly again.

I think one of the devs mentioned changes to the way Spellcraft works in NS4, but I'm not certain what the changes are exactly.

Having an opposed DC check, Spellcraft + d20 vs Spellcraft + d20, might even things out in favour of wizards, if counterspelling behavior isn't hard-coded.

DrakhanValane · Post by **DrakhanValane** » Sun May 16, 2004 3:29 pm

I'm not sure if it's still the case (probably is), but meta-magicked spells were at one point unable to be countered.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Sun May 16, 2004 6:14 pm

The NPC in the Garagoth MA headquarters was countering all my spells, including the maxed & empowered Call Lightnings & extended field spells, but I have to admit I haven't tried it vs a player yet.

BTW - a very nice addition to NPC caster AI. The counterspelling took me totally off-guard.

dond · Post by **dond** » Sun May 16, 2004 7:53 pm

Bob wrote:The NPC in the Garagoth MA headquarters was countering all my spells, including the maxed & empowered Call Lightnings & extended field spells, but I have to admit I haven't tried it vs a player yet.

BTW - a very nice addition to NPC caster AI. The counterspelling took me totally off-guard.

agree. although a few more tweaks needed for that fight i think:
- the golems need to stop casting both acid sheath, and death armor. they don't stack anymore. they also need to stop using the breath so much and start getting to pounding.
- the mage needs to stop spamming with incendiary cloud, and start pulling out the big spells (igms, wail, firebrand , horrids etc)
- the rogues need to start using called shot

the counterspelling made it my favourite fight by far though !