Favored Class Diversity

[Gornickthy]

i don't think its the SD your complaining about..but the popularity in the Bard/SD combo. since the bard gives the SD a sudden upsurge in abilities they wouldn't normally get it suddenly makes them top of their game.


so..why don't i just nerf bard?

See.. there we go again.. I was not complaining about the build, but discussing an observation. Why is it that whenever something is brought to light it has to be someone complaining? Yes some SD builds are that tough, and no it was not the cookie cutter 5ftr/30brd/5sd build. That one is hard to spot, but having bard does not make the SD the ultimate weapon. The SD free action hide is the ultimate weapon, and the bard class in this case is irrelevant. My SD has taken out whole parties also, and it sure is not as tough as the one that I was speaking of that rolled over a large party of mainly 40's. What I was trying to get across is the point in which if there is no spotter then the build is virtually unstoppable. I have seen it and I have dished out such punishment.

You really need to understand that I play such builds and I see the fault in it, and I am not complaining about it... I just see the unbalanced aspect of it as I have dished it out myself on others. You can't tell me you don't see it too. I understand if you don't want to change it, but to say that it is not an issue is simply beyond comprehension. Ask anyone who has had to deal with one.

[Amoenotep]

Since the search function probably returns too many posts on the subject. I'll post the recap. HIPS is hardcoded and cannot be changed without a HAK PACK.

we can always repost this and hope it gets read some more. So what it effectively says is "no, we cannot limit the amount of times a hipster plugs away at this hips hotkey in order to make you lose focus".

what i can provide you with is: i have kill sd builds of good and moderately good playability without ever seeing them. you don't always have to see something to kill it, or make it run away.

[Lorkar1]

So basically in closing SD is FUBAR and we all get to eat a big sh!t sandwich.
That about sum it up?
That also means that an SD doesn't need any type of real AB then either.
So you can invest in Con or Int or Wis for those bennies. Since the AC they are going to hit is the AC you see on your initial character screen. I say this because an SD (a rather crappy one) with a 41 AB is whacking the crap out of a 76 AC (86 AC with IE) and hitting on a roll of 30 and up. It doesnt matter that I could "see" him with my listen, he was still considered an invisible attacker so I was flatfooted everytime he HiPSed. So can you picture the sandwich I just described? So build better doesn't always fly because I built a toon with a high listen and a high AC and to no avail. Spot? I didnt use it because I couldn't figure a way to get it over 110 which still wasn't even close to the Ghostwise SD build which is in the 130's.
Anything more I was gonna say was summed up in the first line.

[cRaZy8or5e]

There are ways around the SD problem, though they are difficult to combat. This is especially true in MA where you guys don't have access to rangers or monks (imho an absolutely necessary class for a zen archer) which can really pump up your ctr-sneak abilities. If spot is the preeminent ctr sneak ability and you can't make a zen archer, try going the bard route. It's difficult but not impossible with the proper focus, to make any build get spot over 120. As stated earlier by Sparky, skills cap at 127 (though Brendan Holmes on the bioware sight stated there was no cap to skills, perhaps this has been changed or NS4 has a cap, I only know what I'm told ). To fight sneaks you don't need a high ab, this is especially true while they are trying to hide, a build I would think about using in MA would be a bard/rog/fighter, maybe go 29/5/6, taking the rogue abilities purely for the spot and then take feats like blooded, sk focus and epic sk focus spot, etc. Make it a wild elf for the extra wisdom and try and spend as many ability points as possible in wisdom so you can further increase your spot abilities. I don't know, that's just a suggestion of course. You could go 30 bard (pump that song), take only 4 fighter pre epic, and go 6 rogue if you're having trouble meeting skill point needs. You'll still get 3 bonus feats pre epic to offset having to take blooded, alertness, sk focus spot or whatever non-melee feats you have to take, and if you make it a dex build you'll still be able to use a bow against those monk sneak builds that fly around out there laughing at the rest of us fools chasing them with our swords .

Furthermore this build will still be an effective support in regular pvp and have decent ac, over 70 capping at around 75 (with blinding speed), though it won't be a tank that can go after other heavy hitter or high AC bards out there. In that respect, it is kind of a pain that in order to combat sneaks you have to build specifically for it, on the other hand, there are so many now, it's worth it

[Amoenotep]

sneak hurts a dex build because sneak makes you flat footed. flat footed is a loss of all your dex pts into ac. if your a dexer...thats most of your ac.

base skills cap at 127. skill that have a roll chek get a bit above that, ie pp, open locks, tumble.

and yes the hips spammer does have an advantage as we can't touch the feat...it would have been ripped out long ago if we could.

[Mythri Wolfwood]

On the topic of sneaks, I'm just thankful they, the players, can't HiPS while they're knocked down. Suffice to say, in a perfect world, HiPS wouldn't be given at SD level 1 and HiPS spamming would be addressed. The only thing we can do here is to try to find a way to beat the sneaks with what we have. Hopefully NS5 addresses the issue.

On the topic of the, well, original topic, I'd like to see something along the lines of:

Race: Elf (not sure what kind of subrace)
Favored Class: Cleric or Bard
ECL 1
-2 STR
+2 DEX
-2 CON
+2 INT
+2 CHA

[Aarkon Draco]

NS5 (NWN2) does cover the hips issue with a 30 second cooldown between hips attempts.

here is a awesome list of races and their bonuses listed by LA (ECL)

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/DnD_Races

most are far from "cannon" but it is a good idea list for races we might want

and here is a PDF of D&D cannon races and their bonuses ect ( fairly complete list )

http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/rules/Dn ... -Races.pdf

[npasher]

Minotaurs would be cool!


MINOTAURS AS CHARACTERS
Minotaur characters possess the following racial traits.

+8 Strength, +4 Constitution, –4 Intelligence (minimum 3), –2 Charisma.
Large size. –1 penalty to Armor Class, –1 penalty on attack rolls, –4 penalty on Hide checks, +4 bonus on grapple checks, lifting and carrying limits double those of Medium characters.
Space/Reach: 10 feet/10 feet.
A minotaur’s base land speed is 30 feet.
Darkvision out to 60 feet.
Racial Hit Dice: A minotaur begins with six levels of monstrous humanoid, which provide 6d8 Hit Dice, a base attack bonus of +6, and base saving throw bonuses of Fort +2, Ref +5, and Will +5.
Racial Skills: A minotaur’s monstrous humanoid levels give it skill points equal to 9 x (2 + Int modifier, minimum 1). Its class skills are Intimidate, Jump, Listen, Search, and Spot. Minotaurs have a +4 racial bonus on Search, Spot, and Listen checks.
Racial Feats: A minotaur’s monstrous humanoid levels give it three feats.
Weapon Proficiency: A minotaur is proficient with the Greataxe and all simple weapons.
+5 natural armor bonus.
Natural Weapons: Gore (1d8).
Special Attacks (see above): Powerful charge.
Special Qualities (see above): Natural cunning, scent.
Automatic Languages: Common, Giant. Bonus Languages: Orc, Goblin, Terran.
Favored Class: Barbarian.
Level adjustment +2.

[mgrjebbo]

i like that idea npasher, but that race would need to be ecl 4 or 5 lol.
Its time to give orcs some love i thinks..

Uruk

The Uruk tend to resemble the more traditional fantasy orc. They are large, burly, mean-tempered beasts who excel in combat. Their lower jaw protrudes forward slightly ahead of their upper jaw to accommodate their large tusks. Uruk have splotches of coarse black hair on their heads and back. Uruk are 6 to 7 feet tall, but often stoop forward reducing their height appearance by one foot. Uruk also have a bulky, muscular build. Their weight ranges from 300 to 400 pounds. They have dull blood-red eyes with black pupils.

Uruk tend to be very confident of their physical prowess. Often they perceive themselves as nearly invincible -- a perception which has lead many uruk to an early grave. Uruk tend to be quite selfish, individualistic and are more concerned over their own welfare than that of others. Uruk are always looking for ways to gain reputation and rank within their clan.

Young uruk commonly bully snaga, often resulting in a conflict ending in serious injury caused to the snaga. Eventually the young uruk will come across a very clever, agile and/or magically gifted snaga who will quickly teach him that not all snaga are as weak and inferior as they seem to appear. Should an abused snaga live through the conflict, it is very common that the snaga and a few of his loyal chums will visit the uruk in the near future. By adulthood, the uruk learn to accept the snaga as capable and useful orcs.

Most uruk are not of average intelligence. Of the uruk that are intelligent, the biggest and strongest of them tend to become the leaders within their clans and tribes. Most orcs (snaga and uruk) support the tradition of following leaders who are physically strong and exude fear upon their enemies simply by their mere appearance.

Uruk Traits:


+4 Strength, -2 Intelligence, -2 Wisdom, -2 Charisma
Medium size.
Base speed is 30 feet.
Darkvision up to 60 feet.
Bonus feat at first level
Light sensitive- Treated as drow i suppose
Favored Class: Barbarian
Ecl-1

Snaga
Snaga used to be uruk many centuries ago when they ventured out into the sun-lit lands. They have long since lost their ability to see in darkness since they have adjusted to the sunlight. A few Snaga yet claim to have some latent ability to see well in partial darkness.

Snaga are smaller in stature and build than Uruk. These orcs tend to be slightly more muscular in build than humans and do not tend to hunch forward as much as the uruk. They are still tough orcs, however their interests often stray slightly from all out combat.

Snaga's skin tends to be a greyish-green color. They have tufts of black hair on their head and back, although many are completely hairless. Snaga have dull blood-red eyes with black pupils. Their lower jaw only slightly protrudes in front of their upper jaw and their tusks are fairly small compared to the uruk -- and this feature alone makes it hard for uruk to view snaga as equals as the size of an orc's tusks is perhaps the greatest source of pride they have. Snaga average height is between 5 to 6 feet and weigh an average of 180 to 250 pounds.

Snaga tend to stick together and they spend much of their youthful years building loyalties with a few other snaga.

Snaga Traits:


+2 Strength, -2 Charisma
Medium size
Base speed is 30.
Low Light vision
Attuned Resistance (The snaga may start with one of the following feats: Great Fortitude, Iron Will, or Lightning Reflexes)
Favored Class: Ranger
Ecl-1


Blooded Orc-
It is said that a blood orc descends directly from Gruumsh himself. They are in appearance no different from the orcs of old. Their skin is shiny and black, their eyes red as blood. Beautiful by even elven standards. They stand 5.5 to 6 feet tall and weigh in around 250 pounds.

Being closely related to the original orc the blooded orc's skin is rarely noticed as they travel with hooded cloaks to avoid sunlight, however it is said that their eyes can pierce even magical darkness.

A race of loners they rarely group with anyone, and as a standard believe that any non-blooded orcs are inferior and rarely worth communicating with, rather that they are more to be used as a tool in their grand plans.

Spending so much time alone they have learned to focus their minds and bodies as one to make their flesh sharper than any sword. A blooded orc using a weapon in combat is almost unheard of.

Blooded orcs knowing they descend directly from gruumsh wish to bring orcs to their rightful place as rulers over all other beings. Relying more on time than direct action to achieve this goal they do strictly abide by all laws of the local land and very rarely find themselves not acting in a most lawful manner.

Blooded Traits:

Wisdom +2, Dex +2
Medium Size
Base Speed-30
Light sensitive- Treated as drow I suppose
Ultra Vision, per the spell
Favored Class: Monk
Ecl- 2


Edit: to protect those involved all but the blooded orc's name should be changed

[LinuxPup]

If only special appearances could display their armor... this is the problem with non-PC appearances. We could make players look like kobolds, azers, orcs, etc... that's not an issue, but every player of these races would look the same.

[Nyeleni]

i like that idea npasher, but that race would need to be ecl 4 or 5 lol.
Its time to give orcs some love i thinks..

Uruk

SNIP
Snaga
SNIP

Neversummer could get into trouble with using the first two names. I think Tolkien's heirs have been very busy lately and copyrighted resp. placed a TM on everything but the basic folklore.
Thus just change the names and it should be fine. Even slightly and it should work already: Arak and Snugu e.g. .

[cRaZy8or5e]

mmmmm Arak, fire in my belly . . .

Good ideas, though, love the ork ideas.