Into the Legion

[Death Dealer1]

knock only works up to a certain dc....after that its ineffective. i can't remember if this one is a knockable door but i think it is. as i said before, this door is put forth on the sign when you head in that it is a shadow legion only door....so why can't it be SL only? does that mean you can't go the short way anymore? perhaps you have to find the other fast ways inside..there are a couple that can get you there almost as fast and just as resistance less.

[Metis]

I can see and understand both sides of this discussion. I always like a good debate where both sides express themselves intelligently.

I just wanted to add this, there are merits for both arguements but I am sure everyone involved will understand the lack of focus on this topic. Not a difficult thing to change but a question of the staff spending the time to decide if it should be.

So again, discuss everything some things may be lower priority but keeping the flames out will at the very least give it some merit for consideration.

[MLoki]

Even with no SL character I agree with at least some of the points that the Shadow Legion are making. I do agree that their should be some quest for them to obtain a key to this door and since the SL jobs are not in effect yet this could be easily done. It would also give new players a clue on how to get out of Menzoduran without getting lost in the Underdark. I also believe that the Lock DC should still be obtainable by non SL characters even if it does take some dedication to the Open Lock skill.

MLoki

[Nemesis Revised]

so lets sum it up:

1) For SL players, engage a quest so as to gain a key for this reputable doorway

2) For non-SL players, require a DC to open the door such as 40 dc. that would be a challenge

[Ragefist]

Hmm, the door is a little easy to get through, but I think that's a holdover from the way back times, sorta. It's meant to be a cutsie way to let Drow see something other than the horrid twistings of the underdark, and it does, as people have mentioned, open out to one of the most trafficed areas of the game. If it were closed off, your city would be as painful to get to as Daeron pre-boats -- it's great when you don't want a high traffic volume, but a royal pain at practically every other time. I guess it all comes down to which is preferrable -- decent access times to the key land routes or rock solid defence and a long hike to and fro.

[Death Dealer1]

dc atleast 50...that is a rogue with pick lock ability...

as far as making it a pain, there are fast ways to menzo without ever setting foot in the underdark screen, ever touching redhorn, and never going through the secret door....this path is just as fast as any others.

[PeregrineV]

Maybe Lloth just sees an "easy" door as a way to allow victims to pop right in for (her) dinner.

[Elagneros]

as far as making it a pain, there are fast ways to menzo without ever setting foot in the underdark screen, ever touching redhorn, and never going through the secret door....this path is just as fast as any others.

Doesn't matter how fast the Catacombs are (NOT as fast as the door), the point is, once a SL relic raider hits the door, he's as good as home free if it's made SL only. SL has already been proven as having one of the best defense setups for the relics, and they don't need another advantage.

[Go'f]

as far as making it a pain, there are fast ways to menzo without ever setting foot in the underdark screen, ever touching redhorn, and never going through the secret door....this path is just as fast as any others.

Doesn't matter how fast the Catacombs are (NOT as fast as the door), the point is, once a SL relic raider hits the door, he's as good as home free if it's made SL only. SL has already been proven as having one of the best defense setups for the relics, and they don't need another advantage.

If a one way raiding door is the main concern for opposition then make it "No Contraband" or "the Relic is to large to fit through the door".

[Death Dealer1]

haha, the only thing i have really been hearing is the relic goes in and we can't catch up...everytime i leave ns with the relic i'm not even followed, seen, or heard from again...relics mean nothing when finding short cuts or roads less traveled.

all i'm talking about is this door is an SL door, don't believe me stop and read the sign next to the entrance next time your raiding menzo. it does no good to have a "secret door" if everyone knows about it, uses it, and tells others about it...it does no good to be a SL door if i see 4 NS chars burst through it at a time...thats all i'm saying, its an SL secret door why should everyone have the right to use it at will?

[lordvan52681]

Going to repeat this one more time.

Factions are a stepping stone for higher lvl areas. They willnot be the hardest areas in the game, because to do this would make them un attackable - which if we did that we might as well make them invlun and pull the guards.

The guards are there as an aid to faction players to defend themselves. No as a wall of unstoppable force.

Said it once, I'll say it again; Menzo is one of the easiest cities to defend. Any change to the door just makes it that much harder for anyone to even attempt to attack.

Seriously, what is the problem here? I remember a before the relics the DM's sent an army of drow at NS city. after a long battle, LA was victorious and pressed the attack to menzo. Half the party died before ever reaching the temple. You have Clerics casting buffs constantly. You have assassins coming out of the shadows. All have drow SR (if im not mistaken).

Before anyone thinks of making any changes to make Menzo easier to defend, they need to worry about the "Soft" cities. NS City may as well have no guards. Garagoth is weak vs anything but a pure caster going solo. Dwarven Stronghold is weak vs anything but a pure fighter (though its location makes it more defensible than NS or Garagoth). Hell, even Daeron is weak compared to Menzo, as the clerics there would rather cast summon IV than buff the paladins.

That leaves Menzo as one of the top 3 defensible cities in the realm. Why should they do anything to make it even harder? Asking for an increase in DC on that door is like asking to give all the dragons in Sleeth Heal spells (instead of just the leaders). They dont need it, and neither do you.

Ill finish this post by saying the same thing I say to ppl from LA and AO who complain about their job quests; You are one of the lucky few to have em, quit complaining. In this case what you have is a defensible city, but the sentiment still works.

[Death Dealer1]

i don't understand how a door makes the city defendable. there are no gaurds there. there are no gaurds when you come into the city. you come out right next to the HQ and barracks...there are a few gaurds hiding int he pit, but no one ever stops for them. all the gaurds in the city are in the main part of town...which is exactly where the front door is, the house doors are, and the hole in the wall lets out in exactly the same zone as the hidden tunnel.

there is no defense purpose for this tunnel, no reason for the server to want to need this tunnel except that it allows them to come into a city by way of the "swoop we're here" and have reign over half the city before they meet a gaurd. so i say again, this is a "Drow secret tunnel" says so on the sign. drow tunnels are not meant for outsiders, not meant to be an easy way in, not meant for anything but drow....if its not going to be a drow secret tunnel it should be as a regular passage with gaurds posted in the sewer there to help gaurd the city. is this really a bad thing...

[Elagneros]

If a one way raiding door is the main concern for opposition then make it "No Contraband" or "the Relic is to large to fit through the door".

That would be more equitable.

[BlkMamba]

i don't understand how a door makes the city defendable. there are no gaurds there. there are no gaurds when you come into the city. you come out right next to the HQ and barracks...there are a few gaurds hiding int he pit, but no one ever stops for them. all the gaurds in the city are in the main part of town...which is exactly where the front door is, the house doors are, and the hole in the wall lets out in exactly the same zone as the hidden tunnel.

there is no defense purpose for this tunnel, no reason for the server to want to need this tunnel except that it allows them to come into a city by way of the "swoop we're here" and have reign over half the city before they meet a gaurd. so i say again, this is a "Drow secret tunnel" says so on the sign. drow tunnels are not meant for outsiders, not meant to be an easy way in, not meant for anything but drow....if its not going to be a drow secret tunnel it should be as a regular passage with gaurds posted in the sewer there to help gaurd the city. is this really a bad thing...

Fine....they stay out of our sewers.....there NS sewers made for the fine people of NS city....catch the point, there are various way's in and out of several of the cities, hasnt been an issue in the past..shouldnt be one now. (I'm not picking on you DeathDealer, you just happened to be the closest post.)

[trent]

Yeah yeah .. you got the "door" .. l.a has the freaking farry that lands at the docks in neversummer city. How many gaurds are there to meet an enemy ... maybe one . I do agree something should be done about the door but not for defence ... lets face it .. L.A has the same problem with the farry , but to distance the 2 cities away from one another. IMO they are too close together.

Relic battles between the 2 factions are crazy . There is no time to stage a defence if both factions have defenders on. 3 maps and your right back at the ememies front door . Just for relic reasons I say either up the dc REALLY high or just perma lock it. Neither side should benifit from that door.

You would figure the drow would have perma locked it anyway since their "secret passage" isn't so secret anymore.