Epic Mage Armor nerf........

[Cyrian]

i see why it was changed, but i think sm is trying to say it hurt the pure casters in the process. would be nice to see another fix that still gives pure clothie casters something. since pm levels dont technically give caster levels, couldn't you make the ac on EMA scale with caster levels? or perhaps the same with epic warding?

[Bargeld]

It comes down to the type of mage you want... basically crazy spelled it out: slow the attacker then IGM. Any other mage is pulp. 2v1 even with slowing and IGM; pulp.

The point is that there is no diversity available mainly due to factional biases. SL/MA are evil or non-good vs NC/TC PRCs that typically have 45-50 (and more) saves and usually have a smite or wrath waiting for you. None of the lvl9 spells that make a diverse caster mage can touch that. The rest of us can get those saves with a BG, but if BGs were really all that, you'd see a lot more of em... they don't even compare to a clc CoT or CoT pally etc.

Mages can get lucky from time to time, and there may be a couple decent variations out there, but altogether arcane classes are just plain boring, cookie cutter, and, well, pulp, in most cases.

edit to respnd to additional posts:
mining, i have a similar 26 sorc, 9 monk, 5 bg. only used a +4 chr book and I used to get 76 ac self buffed. I could rebuild now as a dexer and get close to 98 ac with books & imp expertise. AB? 58 with tensor, NC job dispel: back to 44 ab or so. And this toon went from 76 ac as mentioned to 65 or 67 after EMA nerf. Doesn't seem so bad right? With a scythe, robes and 58 ab, constantly casting haste, then tenser, then div shield, then reactivating imp exp... it's pulp too.

[Cyrian]

yep figured that out for myself by lev 28 wiz

it's now just a scroll monkey.

[Rufio]

The point is that there is no diversity available mainly due to factional biases. SL/MA are evil or non-good vs NC/TC PRCs that typically have 45-50 (and more) saves and usually have a smite or wrath waiting for you. None of the lvl9 spells that make a diverse caster mage can touch that. The rest of us can get those saves with a BG, but if BGs were really all that, you'd see a lot more of em... they don't even compare to a clc CoT or CoT pally etc.

TC doesn't get COT's, Paladins, or BGs, we have to get good saves the old fashioned way. TC shouldn't be clumped in with NC here.

NC job dispel: back to 44 ab or so.

I might be misinterpreting, but NC doesn't have a dispelling job token.

[Rufio]

yep figured that out for myself by lev 28 wiz

it's now just a scroll monkey.

Assuming you are pure, 1 more wizard level and you can craft level 30 amulets, which are awesome.

[Cyrian]

yep i do enjoy the crafting, so the endeavor was not entirely lost. thanks for the info btw.

[Bargeld]

Rufio, you are correct on both accounts, TC shouldn't get lumped in there. NC also doesnt have a job token that dispels, its the oure pally gr dispel 2x daily.

[Shamedmonkey]

Rufio, you are correct on both accounts, TC shouldn't get lumped in there. NC also doesnt have a job token that dispels, its the oure pally gr dispel 2x daily.

That's a crappy dispel with no caster levels. No, what you're thinking of is the purge ability - which gets EVERYONE, even pure casters only have like a 50% of not getting a buff stripped. It is like BioWare Mords.

[OpalimTeGolim]

The point is that there is no diversity available mainly due to factional biases. SL/MA are evil or non-good vs NC/TC PRCs that typically have 45-50 (and more) saves and usually have a smite or wrath waiting for you. None of the lvl9 spells that make a diverse caster mage can touch that. The rest of us can get those saves with a BG, but if BGs were really all that, you'd see a lot more of em... they don't even compare to a clc CoT or CoT pally etc.

TC doesn't get COT's, Paladins, or BGs, we have to get good saves the old fashioned way. TC shouldn't be clumped in with NC here.

I think you should clump TC and NC together, in the same way you should clump SL/MA or RK/AO together. Don't you guys defend/attack together? Aren't the same ppl in TSS and FON/CLAD? It's just how the server rolls.. nothing to be ashamed of. It is silly to talk about balance on the server if you are not looking at the pair of factions. For all practical concerns, the only difference between SL and MA or TC/NC or RK/AO when it comes to raiding/defending is where you start at lvl 1.

Speaking of which, TC are doing fine with their epic dodge kobos and hipsers with cute ac and ms/hide bonuses, fat golems that regenerate how many.. 50 (or more) hp per turn and those cute cats that do two types of dmg and hit for a lot. Oh wait, did I forget dragons with DC 50 or so fear aura.. I must have.. oh wait.. I did not. You can build awesome toon when your base dex is 41 or str 43 or when you are small but can use two handed weapon and a shield.

I agree with what Rogue2x wrote. Just look at what people play during raids now days. Dragons and shifters, pure barbs, pure fighters and pure bards, with some clerics, stunners and few hipsers to grab relics. All melee classes. Mages are used much less often now and that is a fact. In fact, I've noticed that AO/RK use mages these days mostly to cast hellballs. Bit sad because they used them more often in the past.
DC based spells just don't work, either because of SR or because spellcraft is so easy to bump up. The reason I don't play my mage so often any more is because I do more damage with my bard or barbarian. There are bunch of ways to fight IGMS and most ppl have figured them out.

Also, EMA is now dodge ac which is really bad ac type for mages. It doesn't count when you run.
Mining's build is nonviable because no one sane would burn 6 books on a build that relies on a spell that can be made obsolete by lvl 1 scroll.

I see that with recent changes devs are trying very hard to diversify melee builds by making some weapons/classes more attractive, and that is good. It would also be good if they return mages back into the game by giving us ac back.

[Cyrian]

agreed with OTG. too many are the current online dnd games that undermine people who enjoy playing an arcane pure caster class. would be nice to see a place where i can play my character of choice with as much confidence as other pure classes do.

[Tsavong]

A pure mage will normaly have poor AC so 12 shield AC instead of 5 dodge wont mage a lot of different for a pure mage dieing when someone comes up to it and hits it with a big stick.

[Amoenotep]

i've never ever heard of mages standing toe to toe with melee and calling that any kind of balance to a class. mages are squishy bundles of dirty arcane might....thats why they get 1d4 hp at lvl up and not 1d8.

[Cyrian]

it's apparent they're underused. there's probably a good reason for that. just sayin.

[Daral0085]

"Mages are used much less often now and that is a fact. In fact, I've noticed that AO/RK use mages these days mostly to cast hellballs. Bit sad because they used them more often in the past."

Well if you can talk the devs into adding wiz/sorc to TC/NC, you might see more of them. Until then, our entire factional alliance is going to be creating melee builds. I believe the common refrain around here is, "Build better." Or alternatively, if you're so clearly impressed with NC/TC builds, try joining us and making a shifter. I hear dragon shifters with blinding speed are pretty good and nearly impossible to mess up. Or make a pally/CoT, see how good those saves can get.

Once you have to build without any arcane classes (excepting bard), then perhaps you'll learn to appreciate what you have available in the other factions.

[Cyrian]

"Mages are used much less often now and that is a fact. In fact, I've noticed that AO/RK use mages these days mostly to cast hellballs. Bit sad because they used them more often in the past."

Well if you can talk the devs into adding wiz/sorc to TC/NC, you might see more of them. Until then, our entire factional alliance is going to be creating melee builds. I believe the common refrain around here is, "Build better." Or alternatively, if you're so clearly impressed with NC/TC builds, try joining us and making a shifter. I hear dragon shifters with blinding speed are pretty good and nearly impossible to mess up. Or make a pally/CoT, see how good those saves can get.

Once you have to build without any arcane classes (excepting bard), then perhaps you'll learn to appreciate what you have available in the other factions.

i dont see your point. what builds do you miss? the bg/mnk/sorc tenser build that has been shot to death? the PM builds everyone complains about?

edit: prob talking about aa. yea, i understand.