Druid Elemental Form

[Daltian]

You need to remember that since shifter can't take weapon proficiency martial or exsotic they can't take focus and improved crit feats for most of their shapes. Elementals can get them from other classes and get to gave ab higher by 3 and imp crit which is quite a difference.

[Tal]

Not to mention spot, discipline, tumble, and so on. I know the team wants to keep cross classing available to the elemental shapes, why can only be assumed, but regardless of any stat changes the elementals will still be crit immune, HiPSing, spotting tanks running around.

I am really curious to see how the devs handle this challenge of balancing the class combinations out.

[Rufio]

I'm glad to see that the elemental shapes are not going to just be druid only. I find most pure class builds rather boring and limited. If elementals were pure druid only, every elemental build would be nearly exactly the same, but being able to multiclass adds variety and keeps all the interesting possibilites open that people have been exploring with the elementals lately, even if they are not going to be as strong as they are now.

[Bargeld]

I would think the ideal setup would cause the druid to use the shapes wisely, and get their power from their shape choice, like switching shields for damage types. I'm pretty sure this is what the devs would be shooting for, at least to some capacity. I would prefer to battle a powerful epic shape at 40, but fight alongside a smart druid who may only do 5-10 damage a hit, but can defend in many different planes almost indefinately due to the resistances of their shape choice.

The key, as Tal mentioned, is balancing it with all the possibilities of multiclasses... ya just kinda gotta go through them all in your head. And of course the devs always remember every tiny detail, so there's never any holes to plug. They are all there by cruel design

[Korr]

Agreed a high level shifter has weak back-up spells for while shifted. . . I do happen to have an auto-quicken shifter (17 druid. . . just enough for auto quick). And being able to spam infinite ice storms at a quickened rate is quite awesome. Same form also has infinite quickened greater spell breaches (which is the same as mords, aside from shapechange and UEF dont get stripped). Quickened flame weapon and elemental shield, and monstrous regen. Its VERY nice!!!

[Shhhhhhh]

Wouldn't the icestorm only be the strenght of 23 caster lvls?

[Bargeld]

Quick question... do changes to druid/shifter shapes effect the mobs we fight? For example, if you nerf an elder fire elemental shape, when I go fight a real one, will it be nerfed too?

[Nyeleni]

No, they are independent. But if you would fight a druid mob (wouldn't know one) which happens to shapeshift into an elder elementar, then it would matter. It's the same with Posi after CoTs and Paladins got nerfed. Lumis were reduced in awsomeness too .

EDIT a day later:
Actually I think its what you meant: so, yes. The original elder elementars remain as usual of course. Only the shapeshifting druids/shifters npc get modified, but again havent seen one yet (suggestion to Devs, include a boss in Forest Home for instance, that place needs to live up a little bit ).

[Korr]

Here is an idea that popped into my head, dunno how applicable this would be or whatever. . . but hey this thread is about suggestions right ';).

Why dont we take the 4 non True Neutral alignments druids are allowed to be and align an element with them. Maybe shape the spells accordingly too (completely seperate so Ill leave this out).

Heres one possible combination (in addition to whatever stat adjusts elementals might need, or this could help curb it).
Neutral Good - earth (earth is a measure of safety, as in general terms of life giving and sustinence(ewww. . .spelling). As these are generally qualities of good people it would fit I think)
Neutral Evil - fire (fire is destruction, ravaging from one city to the next. Evil are usually the destroys, seems natural)
Lawful Neutral - water (water is containable and directable, even predictable. A lawful person follows specific rules and regulations, so this would be a good go)
Chaotic Neutral - air (air is wild and uncontrollable, able to flow in every direction even at once. Chaotics tend towards this type of behavior so air would go good).

The alignment restrictions would help nullify some cheese builds from cross-classing and other such things. Heres the breakdown of what I see for alignment restricted classes:
Monk/DwD - water only
Barbarian/Bard - not water
Blackguard - fire only
Harper Scout - not fire
While thats not a huge difference for alot of builds (and doesnt effect SDs or WM and some other builds). It goes in line with the neutral casters get a slaadi but theyre smite proof. this would mean that druids are put to the same effect. . . again this was just an idea off the top of my head. I didnt hash it out in my brain for side-effects or anything else like that, just thought it would be interesting

[Amoenotep]

when was the last time harper scout was a cheese build?

[Nyeleni]

You just wait for when my ranger paladin scout hits lvl40 .

Korr, you are lately on a run. I like that idea, but I think it's a little bit too restrictive. What about true neutral? Are they allowed to choose among them? And how do you script it? Maybe it's hardcoded having access to all 4 forms?
But as said, keep the ideas flowing, one or two of them will certainly spark a change or an innovation on ns4.

[Mixtli]

Here is a thought I brought up a long time ago:

Go ahead and restrict the elder elementals to pure druids and those Elemental Genasi races for that element. So you could make an air elder elemental but it has to be Air Genasi if you want anything other than a pure druid. This would be due to the shape awakening the half elemental blood in them. Everyone one else just gets the regular elemental.

I like this genasi race idea. Creative...

As i'm about to build a druid myself, any idea when some changes could be implemented?

[Lokey]

When someone runs some numbers, other stuff came up.

[Rufio]

*Dredges up an old thread*

I was kind of surprised no announcement was made about the druid elemental nerf. I logged my air elemental build a few weeks back only to find my dex had been cut by 9 and my con score cut in half. I did eventually look back at the change log and was able to see that the elemental stats had been updated on the original shifter changes post, i just would have liked to have seen some sort of announcement about the change.

That said, after the initial shock of the nerf, I ran some tests on taski only to realize the hit really wasn't so bad, lost 4 ac, 2 ab, almost half my hitpoints and a good amount of fortitude save (ok, that last bit was painful). I think taski is going into the mule pile (i think it would be too hard for me to take my first 40 to the devil angel) because the holes punched in it can't be built around at level 40, but i think I am ready to start building in the elemental shapes again.

Sooooooo.... can we get the fire and electrical damage on the elemental forms to stack with the fire and electrical damage on weapons? that is killing me right now

[trickovthlyte]

[quote="Lokey"

Is sickle finessable? Kama or kukri aren't going to happen. Slash + weap finesse isn't easy [/quote]


Yes! Sickle is finessable.