Death DC

[Tal]

Well since AA's were put over the top with ridiculous death arrows why not give the PM's deathless mater touch a little boost.. 54 dc perhaps to even out the odds? Seems only fair since they don't have nearly the AB that an AA has.

Let's make all the prc's assassins now why you are at it. Seriously... AA's have uber ab's so why give them uber dc's on a one shot death attack? I saw a dragon fall tonight to such attacks. Over the top by far. So.. PM's deserve such dc's to their death attacks too.


// Oops.. was posted in the wrong forum thread.

[Jacks Revenge]

Hasnt this horse been beat enough? Its a one shot use. Thats it. And it can miss, so perhaps you better take your advice of:
"Stop whining and complaining, and learn to build better."

[Tal]

LOL ... all I see is "Please leave our AA's alone." It is typical of those who abuse the abilities to defend them. AA's were good, and did not need any improvements. The argument will continue until reason is heard. AA's do not need an uber death attack. RDD dragons are over powered, and simply should never have been implemented. The RK stalwart (spelling) hammer token is overpowered in that is lasts way to long.

All you guys do is cry about PM's and their ac and non crit status. The ENTIRE server is complaining about the other issues. It is due time these issues are addressed rather than simply dismissed by subprime players who want to continue to abuse such abilities.

[arvut]

Tal, lets face the fact that only a pure AA, which is like Tep says, suicidal. (as you have no room for skilldumps, and AAs have very limited class skills).

And that its a one use ability, dc44 at max for any non pure AA if my calculations are correct. That is not too high for a once per day ability that on top of it all doesn't always hit.

The PM touch attacks are quite many, you have two of them and you get a decent amount of them both at epic lvls. If you can hit with them (which is rather easy if you focus your build on doing so) then you have a chance of either paralyzing or killing your target. I am not aware of the DC but I'm sure its good enough. After all, you have your crazy summons, a bunch of immunities and great ac, and most palemasters also have a all wizardspells at the end due to the fact that you can scribe every scroll there is unless you specialize. The dcs may not be as high but there is no need when you use them for buffs and counterspelling. And, you can always tenser to get maximum bab from what I've heard...

[Tru3Fals3]

Stop whining and complaining, and learn to build better.

i hate posting on the forums but feel i had to say that the dragon in question that got death arrowed had a fort save of 30 iirc, yes, that's 30, if your build has a fort save of 30 then the problem isn't with the arrow its with your feat selection.....

how can you still have that sig Tal? seriously.

William Tell, my AA, can pass his own death arrow save (dc42) EASILY, might have something to do with epic fort and not using con as a dump stat.....

linux has been testing the waters with mods to the class to make it more interesting, playable and balanced within the game, turning the useless feats it had into something with a little flavour for the class, how bout we stop just whining at him and provide some real feedback instead of "i saw it kill a dragon so nerf it".

[Amoenotep]

Stop whining and complaining, and learn to build better.

i hate posting on the forums but feel i had to say that the dragon in question that got death arrowed had a fort save of 30 iirc, yes, that's 30, if your build has a fort save of 30 then the problem isn't with the arrow its with your feat selection.....

how can you still have that sig Tal? seriously.

William Tell, my AA, can pass his own death arrow save (dc42) EASILY, might have something to do with epic fort and not using con as a dump stat.....

linux has been testing the waters with mods to the class to make it more interesting, playable and balanced within the game, turning the useless feats it had into something with a little flavour for the class, how bout we stop just whining at him and provide some real feedback instead of "i saw it kill a dragon so nerf it".

can i take this post seriously from a guy that complained for hours about an ability that was given then changed in order to make it streamline a class? are you serious about this post?

[Tal]

Of course it is not serious Tep. It just shows how ridiculous some things seem to be getting. Instead of trying to make every class more powerful and more powerful and more powerful.. how about toning some of them down? That was the real point.

[Amoenotep]

i think the real point is players just stopped using their heads at some point and started blankly staring at the screen trying to force their will on it...

[Quiett]

The PM touch attacks are quite many, you have two of them and you get a decent amount of them both at epic lvls. If you can hit with them (which is rather easy if you focus your build on doing so) then you have a chance of either paralyzing or killing your target. I am not aware of the DC but I'm sure its good enough. After all, you have your crazy summons, a bunch of immunities and great ac, and most palemasters also have a all wizardspells at the end due to the fact that you can scribe every scroll there is unless you specialize. The dcs may not be as high but there is no need when you use them for buffs and counterspelling. And, you can always tenser to get maximum bab from what I've heard...

The DC for the Undead Graft (Para) is 14 + 1/2 PM levels so it maxes out at 29 if you have 30 PM levels.

For the Deathless Master Touch (death) it's 12 + 1/2 PM levels so a max of 27 at 30 PM levels.


Not a complaint, but if you think 27 and 29 are high enough, then I'd have to say 44 is a bit too high for the AA death attack.

[ashsagoon]

The DC for the Undead Graft (Para) is 14 + 1/2 PM levels so it maxes out at 29 if you have 30 PM levels.

For the Deathless Master Touch (death) it's 12 + 1/2 PM levels so a max of 27 at 30 PM levels.


Not a complaint, but if you think 27 and 29 are high enough, then I'd have to say 44 is a bit too high for the AA death attack.

You get both abilities 3 times per day not to mention with 30 PM levels you get 90+ AC and an INSANE summon as well as immunity to critical hits with only 10 (which also means sneak attacks, stunning fist, quivering palm, crippling strike, paralysis from assassin death attack, etc). This isn't "all instant death abilities should have 40+ dc." It was about enhancing one class which had nothing but a high AB. If you'd like to compare these two classes and want those two feats upped then please also suggest they give AAs an extra 700 or so hit points and immunity to critical hits as well as death arrow 6 times per day.

[Quiett]

Like I said, I wasn't complaining. I don't have a problem with PM's or AA's or anything really. Just trying to throw some information out there. You mentioned that you didn't know exactly the DCs of the PM's touch attacks.

My comment on the 27 or 29 being high enough, I can't think of any time I'd use something like that instead of just standing there swinging my weapon around. I've been gone for a while, and don't know enough about high level PvP/PvM combat to have an opinion either way really.


Bring back NS4 BETA!!!! Who needs this lvl 20+ stuff!

[mgrjebbo]

Yeah you know i really like that point of view. Balance by scaling back not improving. Since that is never going to happen let me give a suggestion how...

Pure class Penalties !

[Tru3Fals3]

Stop whining and complaining, and learn to build better.

i hate posting on the forums but feel i had to say that the dragon in question that got death arrowed had a fort save of 30 iirc, yes, that's 30, if your build has a fort save of 30 then the problem isn't with the arrow its with your feat selection.....

how can you still have that sig Tal? seriously.

William Tell, my AA, can pass his own death arrow save (dc42) EASILY, might have something to do with epic fort and not using con as a dump stat.....

linux has been testing the waters with mods to the class to make it more interesting, playable and balanced within the game, turning the useless feats it had into something with a little flavour for the class, how bout we stop just whining at him and provide some real feedback instead of "i saw it kill a dragon so nerf it".

can i take this post seriously from a guy that complained for hours about an ability that was given then changed in order to make it streamline a class? are you serious about this post?

oh tep, is that why you told the raiders what we were saying in player chat, nice, cause i don't recall saying anything anywhere else but they were talking about what i said in player chat in their teamspeak..... actually i was more annoyed at being banned for not breaking a rule earlier and the fact the changes went in an hour after the event started but that's another story, i was also pissed at you for making a crack about my mother, very mature by the way, who do i send that ss too? how can i take anything you say seriously LOL

actually i sent all the stats and info about my AA to linux to help him with the changes, i didnt jump on the forums and whine cause my build sucks like everybody else cause that does nothing, i dont even like posting here cause then i gotta read stuff like that, he wants to change it, that's fine, ill just build another toon to get nerfed hell i take it as a compliment that most of builds get nerfed anyways

[Amoenotep]

could have been the shout fest...but..

[Tru3Fals3]

lol which shout fest, i dont recall complaining on shout for hours...