Respawn Time

[Bargeld]

The journal is disabled in many of these areas so that you aren't even able to recall once you venture in. My thought is that these are meant to be extremely difficult areas. I consider the DE area and the component requirements to enter and it is a good example of how you aren't really supposed to have late-comers joining your group.

Personally, I think it's a matter of knowing where you are going and what you will be up against. If you take a group of 4 into abyss and are able to survive the common areas, don't think that you can just go beat up that boss because you are there. Know the limits of your party, know the areas you are in, and what your end goal is. If you don't think you can take the boss, don't try it. Just because a 20 minute death timer points out your strategic shortcomings, don't blame the timer... plan a bit better next time or at least be prepared to accept your fate. (this is the last kicker, as most of these areas require you to be bringing your 40s, losing 2k xp isn't really that painful).

[muze]

I hear you and agree for the most part. and yes as these areas as discussed are usually lvl 40 areas as long as the toon has a pretty good buffer the loss of XP really isnt a concern....its just the damn long run back to where every one started. lol just a little whining on my part.

Too bad they can bring back the days of toon created portals so these issues wouldnt create any problems..

[Rainswept]

Personally, I think it's a matter of knowing where you are going and what you will be up against. If you take a group of 4 into abyss and are able to survive the common areas, don't think that you can just go beat up that boss because you are there. Know the limits of your party, know the areas you are in, and what your end goal is. If you don't think you can take the boss, don't try it. Just because a 20 minute death timer points out your strategic shortcomings, don't blame the timer... plan a bit better next time or at least be prepared to accept your fate. (this is the last kicker, as most of these areas require you to be bringing your 40s, losing 2k xp isn't really that painful).

That's a pleasant theory that just doesn't stand up in practice. "strategic shortcomings" are far from the only reason people die in pvm. Real life doesn't care if you only have 20 minutes to be dead when you're trying to get rid of the Jehova's witnesses at the door. Glitches like trans-death don't care either. Nobody is really better off for having this rule in place.

[Bargeld]

Strategic shortcoming: not investing in your party 100% of your time

I've seen and heard and actually done it myself. Ya know that random fellow that happens to join the party just so they can disappear for 30 mins as soon as you set out. Kick him, then kill him. Then you won't have to worry about him being AFK later.

More to the point, learn the play style of others in your group... the amount of investment that individuals place on the game varies from person to person. If you are in group with people who tend to afk on you, maybe reconsider your destination/goals or your group members. One of the beauties of guilds is that you become familiar with the people that you play with most, and learn what you can/can't rely on.

Of the 2 examples you gave, neither seems to be an epic destroyer of deep planar runs. Transdeath and Jehovah's witnesses stopping your Abyss party? Really I think you have worse problems than a 20 min timer.

BTW Crazy said it helped him just the other day... are you trying to say he is a nobody? *runs from the onslaught of the NC horde*

[cRaZy8or5e]

Personally, I think it's a matter of knowing where you are going and what you will be up against. If you take a group of 4 into abyss and are able to survive the common areas, don't think that you can just go beat up that boss because you are there. Know the limits of your party, know the areas you are in, and what your end goal is. If you don't think you can take the boss, don't try it. Just because a 20 minute death timer points out your strategic shortcomings, don't blame the timer... plan a bit better next time or at least be prepared to accept your fate. (this is the last kicker, as most of these areas require you to be bringing your 40s, losing 2k xp isn't really that painful).

That's a pleasant theory that just doesn't stand up in practice. "strategic shortcomings" are far from the only reason people die in pvm. Real life doesn't care if you only have 20 minutes to be dead when you're trying to get rid of the Jehova's witnesses at the door. Glitches like trans-death don't care either. Nobody is really better off for having this rule in place.

Uhhh . . . yes we're all better off for having this rule in place.

How about, don't answer the door, or don't answer your phone. EVEN if you're for some reason or another pulled away and you 'lost' all that time cuz you and your group got killed, you have no one to blame but yourself and your 'strategic shortcomings' (love that term by the way.) If you didn't take the time to properly plan your venture then you get to deal with the outcome, ie respawn.

Oh Noes!!!!

EDIT: I really do like the increased risk involved with any undertaking like DWP, or Abyss, or Celestia. The greater the risk, the more you appreciate any rewards/drops you get.

[Rainswept]

Increased risk via dangerous monsters, tough spawns, mean abilities... I agree completely, hell I just made a post to that effect a week or 2 ago. The respawn thing... TBH it feels far too metagame to me. It penalizes people for real life things etc. The point of a video game shouldn't be to expect everyone in the group to be able to shrug off RL things.

[LinuxPup]

Players holding off an area (either intentionally or unintentionally) by not respawning is metagaming... and auto-respawning is the cure. 20 minutes is a really long time to wait...in a vast majority of cases its better to respawn than to wait 20 minutes for a raise.

[Rainswept]

D'oh I edited your post... I thought I was replying in a new message. Your response is in quotes in here, but the rest is from me. --LinuxPup

Being dead until someone helps you is metagaming? I'm sorry but I don't see it.

It's not just about the one person who's dead and waiting... its about the others who want that person out of there

If the issue is "holding areas" then why not simply have monsters respawn, not people. If no one is alive, then monsters should be able to return.

Not that simple... would have to rewrite core parts of the spawning system that's been there since Joran... while I could do this:

1. It would be tricky to make it exploit-resistant and non-CPU intensive.
2. It's too specific a case to make such a general change
3. I feel 20 minutes is more than fair... as a player I never had issues of waiting that long, and neither did most of the folks I played with...

People can hold areas without being dead just fine, assuming they have a good hide. This idea of forcespawning the entire server to fix something like a player being AFK on the mountain is like throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

Stealthy players can be spotted/heard. We're not force-spawning the entire server, just the stubborn people who won't click a button... they're ruining the fun for other players so out they go.

Sorry Rainswept, but I don't see auto-respawning going anywhere.

[LinuxPup]

Sorry I accidentally hijacked Rainswept's post...most of his message is in quotes

[Rainswept]

Not one time in the year or so I've played here have I ran into this 'problem' of dead people holding an area and keeping me from XP. Not a single time. Even if they did, it'd be one map on the single largest NWN server I could find.

If someone is doing it, and more than once, I'd totally see that person as being deserving of punishment, instead we hit the entire server with autorespawn.

[Daltian]

I don't see why are you so strongly against 20 min autorespawn. It isn't needed but it doesn't change things that much.

[Sohjin]

I was in a group that 'almost' got wiped in DE last night. Fortunately we had a couple of sneakers who managed to hide and get to safety before coming back to get us up (thanks Daltian). It felt like I was down for a long time but the reality is it wasn't anywhere near the 20 mins.

The only way I can see this ever impacting is if the whole party is wiped and you need to run a cleric into raise everyone. As someone posted earlier, I realised some time ago in 90% of the cases it's just faster to respawn and earn the xp back. The other 10% well you are in a planar area that you shouldn't have been in with that party in the first place and should have expected to die - I can't see why it should be possible to go grab another toon to rectify your over ambition.

As for holding the screens it does happen a lot, especially in the popular levelling areas. I like the fact I can now remove this annoyance, albeit with a 20 min wait for them to autorespawn.

[Rainswept]

I don't see why are you so strongly against 20 min autorespawn. It isn't needed but it doesn't change things that much.

For one thing, it's because I make deep planar runs a focus of how I play, so I'm frequently in areas that would push the limits of a rescue party. Not to mention I'm often in parties that last for several hours, and everyone agreeing to take short breaks for snacks/bio/etc is part of the fun.

For another, I play with people who work around their real-life schedules every day. One guy is a truck driver, and frequently has to step away to deal with his job, by frequently I mean several times every day. Another couple folks I play with eat meals at very regular intervals, and again, must leave game with very little warning most every day. I myself have a landlord who comes knocking on my door whenever theres something she wants, and I can't say to her "just wait, I have to take care of things in a video game."

The entire freaking point of gaming is to be able to relax and enjoy it, and putting things in place that punish people who have real-life things to take care of is just... Let's go with counterintuitive, unnecessary, and extremely frustrating.

[Daltian]

I make deep planar runs. I am frequently in areas that push the limits. My partys last several hours and more and people take short breaks in my partys too. I also play with people that work around real life shedules every day , have no truck drivers unfortunately (don't know how being truck driver matters for 20 min respawn time), most of people i know eat meals too and I still don't see how 20 min respawn would hinder my relaxation and gaming. At least I don't have to run to abyss to rez entire party anymore if something bad happens.

[cRaZy8or5e]

The entire freaking point of gaming is to be able to relax and enjoy it, and putting things in place that punish people who have real-life things to take care of is just... Let's go with counterintuitive, unnecessary, and extremely frustrating.

I see now what you're saying and you're approaching this with a skewed perception. The respawn timer does not punish you for having to deal with RL issues. It is simply another factor you need to consider in your gaming experience.

The respawn timer doesn't cause you to be booted out of areas if you take a 5 minute break. It doesn't force you to not answer the door, deal with your job, take a bio break, or *insert game interruption*. Making the argument that the respawn timer makes it so you can't enjoy your gaming experience, is silly and "counterintuitive."

Let's say you get wiped and have to respawn after getting to Sioxinala in the Abyss. What does that mean? Did somebody take your birthday away?

Of course not, it means you have to attempt the challenge of getting to that stupid 59 DC imploder again, and OH NO! play some more.

punishment. Seriously quit being so melodramatic.

As a person who rarely has the time or opportunity to get deep into planar areas, trust me I understand the frustration involved with having a run fall apart because it got party wiped, or RL issues break it up, or you run out of time, but you respawn/recall and plan strategies and look forward to your next opportunity to "play/game" some more. If you take a setback/failure in your gaming experience so personally as you are with this respawn timer, you're not going to enjoy yourself and it may have harmful effects on your self esteem.

Okay so now i'm being melodramatic