Ki strike debate.

[maibs]

okay so myself and a couple of the DD's are having an argument about this... the wiki says:

Bloody Hands
Description These gloves aren't really so much gloves as bloody remnants of a Blood Amniote that can be smeared on the hands to achieve devastating effects.
Required Level: 30
Base Item: Gauntlet
Weight: 1.0

Special Abilities
Enhancement Bonus Strength +5
Attack Bonus: +7
Damage Bonus: +2d12 Bludgeoning Damage
Damage Bonus: +1d12 Negative Energy Damage
On Hit: Ability Drain DC-26 Constitution
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and about ki strike:
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Ki strike
From NWNWiki
Type of Feat: Class

Prerequisite: Monk 10

Specifics: The character's unarmed strike attack counts as a magic weapon against creatures with damage reduction (+1 at 10th level, +2 at 13th, +3 at 16th).

Use: Automatic

Notes : Ki Strike does not provide an attack bonus; it merely allows an unarmed character to penetrate the indicated levels of damage reduction.
Magic gloves with an attack bonus also allow an unarmed character to penetrate damage reduction, often making this feat superfluous.
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however it has been my experience that the enhancement while wearing bloody hands is definitely not +7.
I do not think it is even +5 in terms of going through DR at any rate.

so the question is, is this statement about ki strike being superfluous still true ? or is it an old comment that is now inaccurate ?

thanks in advance.

[Lokey]

On gloves attack bonus penetrates the same dr power up to 5. Anything higher is treated as 5, at least it counts for ab.

[VagaStorm]

is this so for wepons to?

[Chernobyl_Glow]

So Bloody Hands used in the example will penetrate 30/+5 damage reduction such as Premonition? Why are they not considered a plus 7 weapon? Intentional or Bug?

Does the Ki Strike stack or benefit? That still seems unclear.

And vaga's question is valid too. This is just for gloves? A +7 weapon sword really is a +7 sword right for DR purposes and attack?

Thanks,

- Glow -

[Lokey]

Weapons work as expected for enhancement vs. damage soak. (I.e. a +8 weap would penetrate soak +8/whatever, a +7 or below will not).

There were a number of bugs along the way, but I think attack bonus on weapon except gauntlet does not penetrate DR. Whatever it is now, it's better than the day when true strike let you penetrate +20 dr with anything

[maibs]

lol owch
ok thanks.

[Korr]

Just like almost everything else in D&D only the highest bonus applies, so Ki Strike +3 counts only if your gloves are +1 or +2. Gloves that are +3 or higher are used to break damage reduction instead of the Ki Strike.

Attack Bonus on Mellee weapons does not apply towards penetrating Damage Reduction, and if I recall does not stack with enhancement bonus on the weapon.

Gloves and Bows/X-bows are the only items where attack bonus will penetrate Damage Reduction.

Bows arent considered enhanced because you can match arrows to it as well. +7 bow with +7 arrows means at the same level as a melee fighter you have twice the AB from items, so Arrows generally add damage and bows attack bonus. (This was a big deal in 3.5 when they moved away from +# for damage reduction and went to magic/silver/holy/lawful/etc).

Gloves work the same way in the effect that they are just a covering to your body. They can help aim the attack and force it through things like stoneskin, and premonition (which grants DR based on foresight of combat). The magical ability is there for penetration but not damaging. As a longsword isnt a cover to your arm, nor a morningstar a helmet you beat people with.

[priestofbast]

excellent. clear enough for the slower cat in the back to get it.

thanks.

catfoot