Powr leveling

[Bargeld]

Has there been an addition I am not aware of? a true lowbie area, say from levels 4-12?

The spider area in black hills

I still think most comments here haven't separated the issue of powerleveling and dual logging. Don't get me wrong... I agree with Jebbo thats it's a game and doesn't really hurt anyone. BUT, when you are that level 13 in gnolls and you come up against a party with a buffer, it really DOES kill the PVP and RP element of it; To what extent is determined by whether that buffer is a dual logger or another player. If it's another player, then it's all good when they (or their group of lowbies) comes and slaughters you. But if it's a dual log toon, then not only does that lowbie group gain benefits such as negating the element of surprise as the buffer sits there at the beginning of the map vs following them like a REAL player, to the plain fact that you may end up sneaking around and killing every memeber of the group, but knowing that the buffer is just going to come res them. Again, if that buffer is a player, then they will choose to interact or not when they first meet you, but if that buffer is a dual logger, I guarantee that they will come kill you after you slaughter thaeir lowbie party; and in my mind this is a venge kill. Either way, you are walking into an unfair fight not even worth engaging, and THAT does hurt other player's fun.

The basic argument for or against dual logging boils down to this: if you are a dual logger, then you think it's fine, but if you aren't a dual logger then the dual loggers have an unfair advantage because they are doing something that you can't. Both views are correct and there is no absolute right or wrong. Hence we have grey area and it will never be resolved beyond a personal, or democratic decision.

[Korr]

I am entirely with glow on this one. I have played here on and off for a few years now. Ive been to snake pit, gnolls, mountain, underdark (pre and post wipe), yuan-ti, formians, lizardfolk, mezzoloth, kobolds, goblins, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc. When I left DD I made some toons in NC . . . they dont do to well in Abyss as you could imagine. So why grind through the stuff Ive done 100 times, when what I would like to do is get some toons that arent 1 smite dead from numerous monsters in the abyss. Like glow said as well, when Im running around on my cleric off on a rescue mission (the next thing for DMs to say we cant do (ever try to rescue someone past the maze in HoK? or in the sphynx room?)) and I see a lowbie running around I will empart a few buffs. Any character I have that can cast bull str does so when I see someone who is crawling along after a recall, or a respawn or on the road from having to much equipment.

How are the DMs to decide who can do what at what level? Have they made every toon of every level? Hardly!!! I have had toons who can WITHOUT help take Ive Giants at level 16. I have toons that are 30 that get beat down by a bad spawn in there. So does that mean if I buff this particular level 30 and try something like skara I will get messed with cuz he cant take giants? Or will my level 16 that I buff to make it go quicker get messed with in giants?

[Korr]

This one is for bargeld. I am a member of (A), we all share the accounts and toons of (A). We have even given out the passwords to friends so they can use our cleric (an A M A Z I N G buffer) and bard (pure . . . need I say more?) to help us, or help themselves if they want to. So there have been times when this friend has helped us out and there were more (A) toons on than members (discluding the fact that I dual-log). Also, I mentioned part of this in my last post a little bit; Near everyone I know that has a cleric goes to get that cleric if the party dies, we wait for him to show up and get us off our backs. So your assumption that only dual-loggers can get someone to raise is completely off track. Its more effective with a dual-logger around, but its not exclusive ability of dual-loggers. In fact the only exclusive thing I can see for dual-loggers is a party . . . no questions asked, and split attention . . . no questions asked.

[frogofpeace]

BUT, when you are that level 13 in gnolls and you come up against a party with a buffer, it really DOES kill the PVP and RP element of it; To what extent is determined by whether that buffer is a dual logger or another player. If it's another player, then it's all good when they (or their group of lowbies) comes and slaughters you. But if it's a dual log toon, then not only does that lowbie group gain benefits such as negating the element of surprise as the buffer sits there at the beginning of the map vs following them like a REAL player, to the plain fact that you may end up sneaking around and killing every memeber of the group, but knowing that the buffer is just going to come res them. Again, if that buffer is a player, then they will choose to interact or not when they first meet you, but if that buffer is a dual logger, I guarantee that they will come kill you after you slaughter thaeir lowbie party; and in my mind this is a venge kill. Either way, you are walking into an unfair fight not even worth engaging, and THAT does hurt other player's fun.

Ha ha, you must have been reading my mind. Ran into just that situation last night, and led to some good fights this time (cos CLAD wouldn't lay down and take it - nice job, Ajantis), but ... Yeah, kills the fun a little when the other group is buffed to the gills, even if they are similar level, or they just lay around waiting for mama to come res em.

But I digress. So that's a grey area, and somewhat sleezy, but again, t'aint no big thang.

[Bargeld]

So your assumption that only dual-loggers can get someone to raise is completely off track.

I never made that assumption. I have no idea where you are coming from on that post.

BTW we all know that you have made a toon somewhere at sometime that has done everything and solo'd everything... you can leave that out of future posts now

[Ajantis.]

I think you guys are taking this warning wrong, dual logging and "power leveling" aren't necessarily being denounced, we are only being warned not to push the limits of it, i.e. going to Sunken Isle with your level 7. This announcement has been made before when the DM's have observed this. I don't want to predict the actions of a DM for this, but i would expect a nasty spawn of HoD skellies or DWP spawns in a cavern that you didn't really belong in to begin with.

[Big Billy]

I dual log and powerlevel on a regular basis. I have not had any issues with the DM's. However, I stay within their guidelines and level only in areas that I could otherwise handle without buffs.

This works great for me and keeps the DM's away

[mgrjebbo]

I was responding honestly and positively with my view point on the subject. Nowhere in the post did I name a name, or put anyone down.

Here is the bottom line and something that is included in almost every guide to making a module,

Your module will be created with your idea of what is right and wrong, how a player should experience your world, and what if any interaction should take place between the dm's or other staff and players.

They go on to say that the first thing you need to do is throw all of that out of the window, because players will play and experience your world how they choose to. Staff will interact with players how they choose to and there really isn't anything a creator can do about it other than shutting down the module.

If you say power leveling of any kind is now a bannable offense then people with "Common Sense" will not do it. Saying that bad things will happen to players who choose to have a friend spend their time power leveling them is not a response I as a player understand. It’s either ok or it isn’t.

This is a Meta gaming server. It always has been. If 5 out of 50 players choose to do this what in the world is the problem? Let the players have fun. That is after all the point of DD hosting this server for FREE. So that people can enjoy it.

To say, "Why don't we just put in insta 40 leveling devices".... really? That is the argument against letting people spend their time how they choose on DD's server?.... really?



Now, as for killing lowbies with a toon that is leveling another, that’s un-sporting. I agree with a TSS fellow that told me a story about this. However the dm's log toons on to kill people and its fun for them. People like NSpker buy a 40 just to kill lowbies on the mountain and its fun for that person. It happens. Lowbies get killed by 40's. It's a pvp server. It happens. There are always other places to go and other things to do. To put any more value on a buffer killing a lowbie then say someone who chooses to run up the mountain and slaughter everything is again not a sound argument.

That all being said, players come and go and the staff has no responsibility to the player base since it is a free server. This is not a democracy.

[Amoenotep]

this post was originally aimed as a discretionary tool to lean players away from doing things that are absurdly ignorant.


if i can come along and strip all the buffs on your super buffed lowbie/midbie in any situation and he insta dies because the mobs are crazy hard for him....take it as a hint that "sure i can power through these things, but perhaps its faster and safer to power through things that are challenging but not impossible."


and to answer your question korr, yes, dm's have a very good knowledge of what types of chars to best/worst in what kinds of areas and situations given to them.

[Alkapwn]

I think most of the DM's have our best interest in mind.

Once upon a time a certain DM would actually RP these situations like so.
Party of 4-7lvls tanking Giants being powerleveled by a 40
Lord Grezor/Genyok shouts out to rally the troups against the raiders
DM drops in a couple ice giants or worse. And something a little meaner to take out the PL'r

This worked great
1: It shows the players that something is coming and maybe they shouldnt be where they are
2: Its semi-rp'd to allow it to be actually fun and give the DM a presence in game
3: Gives the players a chance to run for their lives instead of being instantly killed from dm debuffs and/or instakill'd and having to take a hit.
4: or Go for it and have a hell of a fight! (and winning would sometimes reap other awards)

Or simply port the High level to an appropriate high lvl zone. Gods used to call on us adventurers alot in the past. Not so much as of late Honestly the amount of "DM's" that are online frequently seem more interested in pvp'ing then actual game enhancing. I know Malik has been doing some good work for the rp'rs but other than that its been pretty dry. Understandably events are a little hard on the server sometimes but usually great fun.

[Korr]

I like where alka is headed with this. Lets examine the roll of a DM in D&D in general (yes I know D&D is not NWN, we could have a 100000000000000 page long thread about that). With a few assumption in mind (which I hopefully dont need to explicitly state). A DMs job is to run the game, direct it, and make it entertaining. If players get off track then the DM comes in and creates a way to fix the problem. Not stop them in their tracks or try to get them slaughtered where they stand. If the player refuses to go along with it, then I could see there being a problem. More drastic measures could be taken then.

I hope everyone could agree (DM and players alike) that being/running a DM event, no matter how big or small is far superior to grinding some levels.

[Rummybum]

I have no problem with power leveling.

I can dual log but I suck at it so bad it is almost pointless, heck I suck half the time single logged.

If there are any level 40s out there power leveling lowbies I think that is darn nice of them and I want to know if they will come pl me?

When you've had as many toons as I have, losing dozens of epic toons in each of the last 2 wipes, you are having fun trying different things in different situations or building crafters or whatever. In that case the more pl the better.

I will not dual log or anything like that even for buffing if the server is busy, just not rel considerate.

[Azeel3]

Why is this a problem with anyone...ITS AGAME ! We all come here for various reasons; but the underlying thing is its a game, so have fun. If you want ppl to stop power leveling put out some events on a more regular schedule; that hand out more xp and some decent prizes.

When we had events most weekends and a few special events during the middlle of the day you could look forward to your toon gaining a level or two and no one was screaming about power leveling. Everyone I have ever had the pleasure to play with or kill here comes for one thing. The action, not to be policed to death, cause we have a small, medium, or even a large party.

We come to play together, to have fun, and a lot of you just need to get over yourselves, and back into the fight. A lot of the time there is no one on you want to party with or near your level and this started the "so-called" duel logging, power leveling people, and WOW guess what it caught on, embrace the change. If someone spends "Their money for a second, third or even fouth computer(and i dont even want to know what they are using to operate that last set of keys) Embrace the change; cause its a game; and when some ppl aren't out killing off ppl with instant 40's or raiding with over powered godly 40's then maybe you'll understand we're just having our fun....ok ok ranting now my apologies.
all i am saying is if the game is about the players, and pvp, let us fight, let us level and be fair about the retaliations.

Oh, on another note, can someon just please do something about ppl dragging three and four toons into relic rooms and COMBAT LOGGING, its getting a little old if you come all the way to my sandbox, stay for the fight.
-The Sandman PWnD

[DM_Kim]

#1 To Korr: Your dang right that some of us have great knowledge on builds, classes, which can do what at which level and where.. I've been playing here since the player level cap was 25. Long before Forstdale was around and when the Okies were running rampant. For a couple of years I played solo and had my butt handed to me by guild pkers many a time back then. I have built every class and have had PC's in every faction all before having the honor of giving back as a DM. I have also gone through 4 or 5 server wipes and had to "start over again".

#2. How many of you, as a lowbie, killing rats and things when you were around level 1 to 4 found yourself getting buffed with Haste, Bull's, Cats, Flame weapon, Greater Stoneskin, Imp Invis? Well Guess who that was and did you get more XP faster? And get a level or two in before those buffs wore off?

#3. Have I been PL'd and PL'd others when I was just a player? Yes I did. The difference was I never took a level 6 to the Mountain Top, we started in Dark Forest and by the time we got to the Mountain top they were level 10 or 11. Same went for me when I would get PL'd. I always made sure I was a min of level 6 when I hit Dark Forest and waited for a good through the passes, up the Trail and to the Mountain Top.

If you have doubts about this find out who were my former guild mates were and ask them. Besides that I had some dang good teaches here in NS4 on how to build, where to go and for the most part I solo'd because others were not around to help as did most of my guild mates.

The only Time I do an instant 40 (I speak only of myself) is when something needs testing. If I use that toon in PvP you'll know it's me. Outside of that, I still make PC's, play them 1 level at a time, do crafting, do jobs. play all factions, etc.. and use what I can buy or find as drops. Many of you have had me in your party, have rezed my poor bones when I've gone down or have passed me by when I'm running solo. So yes I am very much in touch with NS4 and what class can do what spawn at what levels and were solo. No matter what I play, (except a pure caster) it takes me about 12 hours on average of game time to get from level 1 to 13. At 13 things fly much faster. And that's starting with no gold, no gear and no buffs. Sometimes, depending on the build, it can go much faster.

So Yes Nancy we know of what we speak of. Starting a thread called Do The Math so others might understand that the first post I made here was not to hurt and hinder but to help.

Just to make a coulpe of points clear. At no time was it ever stated you could not get buffed by a level 40. At no time was it every said you could not dual log. At no time was PL ever said was illegal. What was said was that DM's take a dim view of it and if strange things happen don't whine. Lastly you were asked to use common sense and stay in zones within reasonable range of your character.

[Trogdorbob]

Im surprised this post hasnt gotten locked yet . teehee.

I think that those that have been here for sometime know all the levels of area's that you could be. There are main areas that everyone and their freakin cockroach go leveling at and some areas that others wouldnt think about. Just takes time to see it all. mmm not sure why im posting here. Had a point but seems pointless now with all the sniveling going on about not being able to PL. too bad.

You go DM Kim give them whatfor.