Linux, my dragon sux now, fix it!

[Amoenotep]

shut yer moutch jebbo..i'll tell you what your opinion is when i want it



we don't need point for point layouts of your builds....we need to know

1: AC...was it a major up or down...did it do circles and spin around?
2: AB...is it lower than a lvl 30 palemasters, or a pure mage now?
3: HP...are you cooking with 2k hp or did we nerf you to 50hp?
4: saves....were there major fluxes in that department?

[MLoki]

Personally I was surprised to find out that shifted forms got such a major Dodge boost from 2x Dodge from items. Not sure if this was what was making the 80+ AC dragons or not but the Wisdom Bonus from monks wasn't supposed to be included in these forms either. Not sure if any of the shifter tweaks made it to RDD Dragon or not but the extra AC from 30 RDD levels should certainly help.Something that big shouldn't have a huge AC in the first place. You should be able to hit them just fine but they should have some major DR to soak most of the damage perhaps. Just my 2 cents.

[Jacks Revenge]

For my 30 RDD: I went 9 monk 1 sorc 30 rdd I used Gith as a subrace so my ac might be a bit different for others, for AC unshifted my ac is 66 after token its 70, equip a shield it goes to 67, shift goes to 66, 68 with blinding speed, previously i could only hit an 86 ac with imp. expertise on my dragon, normally just fighting i would only have a 76, so i am unsure what dragon Korr is looking at but I remember what mine was and I have lost 10 AC, but unshifted my AB is a mighty 41, in dragonshape its a impressive 53 with Blinding Speed which i dont think has changed from what i can tell. All this information is according to my Char. Sheet. My saves: Fort goes up 8 points when shifted my Reflex drops 14 points, and Will stays the same. So this is/was my overpowered RDD feel free to rip it up like everyone always does
Hope this helps

[rocketkai]

I guess the dragon shape used to have -10 reflex penalty, but based on what have been said in this post, I think the penalt should be removed or reduced, since the old dragon shape has 28 white dex, but current one only has 16. My 2 cents.

For my 30 RDD: I went 9 monk 1 sorc 30 rdd I used Gith as a subrace so my ac might be a bit different for others, for AC unshifted my ac is 66 after token its 70, equip a shield it goes to 67, shift goes to 66, 68 with blinding speed, previously i could only hit an 86 ac with imp. expertise on my dragon, normally just fighting i would only have a 76, so i am unsure what dragon Korr is looking at but I remember what mine was and I have lost 10 AC, but unshifted my AB is a mighty 41, in dragonshape its a impressive 53 with Blinding Speed which i dont think has changed from what i can tell. All this information is according to my Char. Sheet. My saves: Fort goes up 8 points when shifted my Reflex drops 14 points, and Will stays the same. So this is/was my overpowered RDD feel free to rip it up like everyone always does
Hope this helps

[Azeel3]

here's some feed back from an RDD dragon player, my dex went form 31 to 25 and then to 16 shifted, seeing a real effect in breath ability, not being able to use it, everything effects the dragon now in combact now, huge difference.plus the fact that all the time you are leveling the 30 build you have no other bonuses; limited prestige selection, and glitches in your choices as you level,making it all one big headace. Then when you finally make your prestige melee dragon nothing you have save a few pots work, no switching out armor or weapons, you can only shift one time a day. Its a tank, one big super tank, that is now the equavalent of a rolling box. Add all the bonues to druid or shifter dragons while nerfing our Ao dragons only kills off a build, it really is very one sided. please fix it , and as a question to anyone else that feels that we're just whining, how would you like losing ability points spent on your build that you can't get back or make up ?

its not like we can instant level and make a 40, and anyone that's built a 30 lvl build knows that its hard work and dedication to the build for its end value you give up a lot to make the build, time, items, books, and its not like you have 20 or 30 ability points to use or lose,you take 5-9 points out of a toon and its not going to play the same.

NO PALIDAINS
NO SHADOWDANCERS
NO WIZARDS
AND A NERFED PRESTIGE CLASS , the cross is heavy enough give us a break and leave it alone. It hard enough buiding good toons without coming on three weeks later to find their legs cut off and a hand tied behind their backs... this went too far.

why can't we have more pure class bonuses, AO jobs that will do something and more events. less time nerfing stuff that like its suppose to be, and more time letting us enjoy the game.

AND FOR THE RECORED WHICH EVER DM SENT THE MA EPICS TO HELP THE OTHER FACTIONS RAID THE THER DAY, AT LEAST STAY AROUND LONG ENOUGH TO MAKE SURE LOWER LEVEL PLAYERS DON'T LOSE XP FORM IT ! one of our newer players deadbunny was just helping out on the defense when she lost her level because of an epic Ma spawn guard can someone plz correct that for her, and at lest make sure it doesn't happen agian to someone else.

thank you
Cannibal King of PWnD

[Amoenotep]

my heart bleeds for AO....do any of the other dragons effected have any type of feedback, or is this just going to be a "why do you hate me so much" thread and not have any real feedback or real stat issues?

ok, you lost dex...how exactly did losing dex effect your breath weapon or have anything to do with how hard a dedicated build is to level?

no one cares you don't have jobs, when we figure out someone to put them in...you'll have them.

no one cares you have a few restricted classes...this is ns4, thats the theme.

no one cares you want more of what you want and less of what you don't...we need real feedback for the solutions at hand.

btw, i spawned the guards, no i won't refund a lvl that is easier to get than complaining about it....if you really want to discuss that kind of stuff, pm me and leave it off your whine posts.

[MLoki]

Obviously Azeel has not seen this Quote... V

[Jacks Revenge]

we need real feedback for the solutions at hand.

I thought i was trying to do that? I've given my AB, AC, Stats, Saves, and im trying to stay positive about the whole issue at hand. If any of the Dev's want to see my dragon ill be more then happy to log on at a certian time in hopes that this can in some way, shape, or form this mess can be cleared up. For the record on my toon the Breath Weapon hasnt changed its still DC 50 like the change log says. I was talking to a good friend who plays a druid and he stated that his Dex doesnt drop to 16 like the RDD dragons, but i cannot verify this, but i do trust the source. So i would say this does seem like a bit of a hit against AO, but you cant always trust what you see.

[Shhhhhhh]

Someone mentioned earlier the AB on charsheet, but make sure you check the AB in combat log, thats often different on the unarmed shifter shapes.
My Pre lvl 35 dragon for example has 42 AB on char sheet but 45 actual AB.
I guess its because it has +4 claws but loses 1 ab for huge size or something like that.

[Korr]

Everything I posted from my stats were from the combat log and calculations (not including the character sheet). So lets see here, strict calcs

AC = 10 (base) + 20 (dodge) + 9 (dex if 16 dex max base) + 5 (deflection) + 5 (natural) + 6 (armor) + 9 (shield) = 64 (72 if RDD AC stacks (which it wont if its applied to skin only a dev can answer how its applied))

so AC = 64 whereas it used to be 26 dex (for a 14 modifier) would put you at 69 AC. . . and no I dont care what any of your RDD char sheets say you didnt have 80 AC (cuz my screen said the same thing). If you have a monk dragon then you can get 6 more AC on top of that to put you at 70 AC still (or 78 if the RDD applies). But you gotta know how to do it (I wont explain it here, if a dev wants clarification on how its done PM me).

Thats a drop of 5 AC. . . boohoo, thats the ONLY change you got on AO dragons. . . that and some reflex save.

AB . . . same.
Damage. . . same.
Saves. . . mostly same.
AC. . . down 5.

My dragon + bard combo could solo any non-boss area in Abyss or celestia with almost no problems whatsoever, Ill be willing to bet I still can. Dragons I would guess are still getting their /+8 DR (and if they dont mine has epic DR). I dropped 5 books into my 30 RDD (all but str (go fig)) and its still a badass post-nerf.


P.S. Go read up on a monster manual where all the dragons are listed and see how many of them have more than 10 dex base. Dragons are big and beefy not dodgy.

[Shhhhhhh]

Armorskin and thumble increase that AC a bit more.
And with Dragon+bard combo do you mean 1 char that has RDD and bard lvl's or a RDD buffed by a pure bard? because the second option isnt really 'solo'

[Lokey]

Old dragon stats are in the change log http://www.nsrealm.com/public/ns/viewto ... &start=235 Also, level 35+ dragons have 10 ab that doesn't show on the character sheet unless you're over the +20 cap (10 claw, 6 bard, 2 blinding, 3 AVA, etc...).

1.69 made RDD ac stackable with everything, for 30 RDD that's 8. Good skill list, ok ab, ok saves, RDD is just a horrible class

One on one, I found druid dragon way better than anything you can make with 30RDD (both being better than shifter). Just because you rarely see an RDD dragon without full caster party members doesn't mean they were too far out of line. Monk BAB iteration isn't _that_ scary on them, but they certainly have room for a collection of melee feats that druid/shifter probably don't.

[Korr]

Well my point wasnt "is it stackable" it was, is it applied to the skin of the character. A ranger/druid that shifts loses his improved evasion because its on the skin. A water gen that shifts loses 50% cold immunity because it was on the skin.

I was running a 30 RDD with a pure bard. . . I was running so its solo to me.

My 30 RDD is 8 cleric and 2 bard with a 12 damage divine might. So losing 5 AC doesnt make much of a difference when I do 8d8(claw) + 31(str) + 12(divine) + 2d10(fire) for a really nice 53-127 damage. I also squeezed in blinding speed, and epic DR 3. You dont wanna find my dragon first 20 rounds after shifting without dispelling him, because of cleric buffs he has max AB easily and even more damage. (ie when im playing both comps add 16 always and 21 first 20 rounds of damage) nothing like having a toon that can hit for almost 150 damage ';). His crits hurt even worse too. . . bwahahah that is why he is the Tyrant of Anarchy.


P.S: On a side note, my dire tiger shifter has feasted on dragon meat more than a few times in the heat of battle.

[Shhhhhhh]

Since the rdd AC is a feat and not something the ns team added, I figured it would count in shifted shape too?
And if the dragons get +10 claws, surely they end up with better ab than 53?

[Lokey]

They do, it's just wrong on the character sheet (which is funny because creature weaps used to be reported correctly on the char sheet, anyway any level 40 dragon has ab near/in the 60s unbuffed, it's just not possible to get it much lower through bad level-up choices and not really possible to get it much higher with the best ones--outside the shapechange spell of course). That's the reason why 90% of the info I'm given is not helpful, many things are reported wrong on the character sheet.

RDD ac didn't stack pre-1.69, but I forget which ac type it used to be.