More shifter saving throw merging issues

[Chernobyl_Glow]

Yeah. This has not been resolved.

At first I thought Cool. Resolved. Then reread. lol.

...

This is a really interesting topic. Thanks for researching this. If, I understand you right, the following gear yields the following benefits.

Crafted Belt +4 Fort Save
IA Boots +5 Reflex Save
Crafted Amulet +6 Will Save

So Not including stat changes, I have a bump of 4/5/6 on the Saves.

If I add a Merfolk Helm, Sphinx Hide, 2 Xeg-Ya Rings, and White Robe I would have expected an additional +6 to all saves. Your findings imply that not only are the items not stacking but instead of getting +6 to all saves from the Universal Bumps, I'm actually only getting 4/5/6 from the "type specific" gear.

This topic is related to your shifter but my guess is this actually applies to all characters.

- Glow -

[rocketkai]

I have tested it on my RDD dragon and dru element shape. Both shapes look good with mixed universal save and specific save gears. So the problem might only happen for shifter's wild shape and human shape? I am not sure, since my shifter don't have epic shapes.

[Rufio]

Yeah. This has not been resolved.

At first I thought Cool. Resolved. Then reread. lol.

...

This is a really interesting topic. Thanks for researching this. If, I understand you right, the following gear yields the following benefits.

Crafted Belt +4 Fort Save
IA Boots +5 Reflex Save
Crafted Amulet +6 Will Save

So Not including stat changes, I have a bump of 4/5/6 on the Saves.

If I add a Merfolk Helm, Sphinx Hide, 2 Xeg-Ya Rings, and White Robe I would have expected an additional +6 to all saves. Your findings imply that not only are the items not stacking but instead of getting +6 to all saves from the Universal Bumps, I'm actually only getting 4/5/6 from the "type specific" gear.

This topic is related to your shifter but my guess is this actually applies to all characters.

- Glow -

Yes. That is exactly what is happening. I haven't looked at elemental shapes recently, but I remembering having the same problem with taski, though i guess that could have been changed. I logged Sebastian and tested it again just to be sure and this is still happening, and it does still happen with the normal shifter shapes, though I don't have any epic shapes from epic shape feats.

[Lokey]

All polymorphs use the same functions. The ones applied as permanent are everything shifter, dragonshape, RDD. If things work separately but not together...I'm out of ideas except checking one or two things.

[Chernobyl_Glow]

Heh. I wasn't clear on the question for ya. Is this a concern only when a player Shapechanges, i.e. Shifters, Druids, RDD dragons prolly? Or does the average Pure Cleric or Pure Fighter have this same concern?

Just curious,

- Glow -

[Lokey]

It would presumably exhibit the same wonkiness. If it doesn't...

[Rufio]

Heh. I wasn't clear on the question for ya. Is this a concern only when a player Shapechanges, i.e. Shifters, Druids, RDD dragons prolly? Or does the average Pure Cleric or Pure Fighter have this same concern?

Just curious,

- Glow -

Oh, it only happens when shifted.

It is really easy to tell what is happening when you have mixed universal saves and specific saves on your toon and shift to a form that doesn't change con dex or wis and your saves drop by the amount of universal save that you have.

[MrAsimov]

I do believe the answer to this is simply that all of the item properties from rings, gloves, amulets, helms, etc. are being merged into the creature skin of the creature to which you shift. Therefore the universal save bonus and the individual save bonuses are on the same item. When universal saves are on the same item as specific saves it takes the higher of the two and doesn't stack them.

[Lokey]

No they're effects like spell buffs. If nothing is hinky in code (like same variable name being used, which I don't think is the case), it's something engine. (Individual things that stack are added together for this purpose like say regen.)

[Daltian]

Maybe universal saving throw chould be taken apart and added to each save throw individually when merging. Can that be done?

[rocketkai]

Tested it again on my RDD dragon with merfolk helm, 1*Xag-Ya ring, IA boots, and crafted amulet.
My will saves were both 45 when unshifted and shifted. The fort and reflex saves were the same in both shapes if minus the corresponding CON and DEX modifiers. This means there's no problem with the RDD dragon shape with mixed universal and specific save gears.

[MrAsimov]

No they're effects like spell buffs

I see. One more NS4 special. Just one more thing I obviously didn't know and shouldn't have thought I did. hehe (Note to self: Stop thinking you know what is going on when you haven't actually seen the custom script.)

I have done some testing with my shifter and it seems to overide universal saves with specific saves for all the forms I have tried so far.

[Amoenotep]

it might be the shifter specific forms...a list of specific forms you have tried will help narrow down exactly what is getting called and which of the forms call on the same script.

try to remmeber that polymorph isn't just a single script..its about a dozen interwoven scripts that are horribly called and very difficult to trouble shoot sometimes.

[Lokey]

Nah, I cleaned all that up. Everything polymorph calls the same methods, the same complicated and fragile methods Copying item props to hide/claw looked to be one source of the die -> crash server problems...held items seem ok (that list is pretty short, enhance, attack, damage, I forget what else).

The only real difference is stuff applied as permanent duration (i.e. shifter) or non-perm (spells, most druid abilities), then the buff icons are suppressed.

There's two possibilities to check, which I'll get to when I'm up for wading through that mess. (Oh, props to Iznoghoud, couple things that needed reworking and a few bugs, but that was a nice script set to start from.)

Also play along at home: http://pastebin.myrror.net/2357 Stuff around line 329 and 435ish need toolset function constant compared to 2da and logic checked.

[jens9351]

Egads.
I see that type of scripts and I get confused. I can feel the glazed look start when I look at that type of code.

I'm glad I deal with L1 equipment (PLCS, smart sensors, etc). I can handle ladder logic and function blocks and very minor HMI scripting.