Disarming

[Tal]

I started a new thread for this since it was off topic from the dual logging thread...

Would be nice if they'd at least look at the other screens to answer questions. I was disarmed by a player whom looked to be playing 2-4 toons. I asked 1 in tell, and asked the other 3 in talk that were standing inside a building idling while the other fought if they'd seen what happened to my deathbite. I asked repeatedly without any acknowledgement. Now I know that they are not obligated to answer, but every other player that's disarmed me has atleast told me that yes, he/she found the weapon and is keeping it. I personally think it's a very rude to ignore when I was asking very politely, and not attacking, I'd even put my weapons away so as not to appear hostile. If someone can't even bother to manage simple conversation, what exactly is it that they are contributing to the community? Their spot could easily be filled by an NPC at that point.

This disarming is an entirely different topic that should addressed. Just the mere fact that very hard to find items that very often cannot be easily replaced can be disarmed and stolen by a pre-epic feat or even a feat given for free by a whip. Kinda sickening. Having the item go to on'es inventory, and then having it unusable until rest is actually great for play and balance. The item loss is simply freekishly uber overkill for such a meager feat. Some players give items back, while others keep everything.

Then there si the disarming from mobs. How many times have people died because they had to make sure their weapon wasn't on the ground, otherwise they would have just run and transitioned? How many people have lost weapons on walls, cliffs, other obstructions, or because it is floating in some random place?

Many mobs have been made so they cannot be disarmed. I think weapon drops from players being disabled is way over due.

[Rainswept]

First of all, let me quote something for ya, I saw this in someone's sig:

Stop whining and complaining, and learn to build better.

Sorry, couldn't resist.


Disarm bothered me somewhat at first but then I realized a couple things. Firstly, all the things you spoke about are not unknown, they are intentional. Disarm has already been tweaked to prevent highbies from disarming lowbies etc, and it's already been tweaked to keep your weapons from ending up on top of a wall somewhere.

If you don't have good enough discipline, don't take weapons you can't afford to lose into PVP, its as simple as that. Disarm isn't broken, it's a pain by design.

[Tal]

I agree with you for the most part. I myself really don't lose weapons anymore due to learning how to build to prevent the loss. If I do lose a weapon it will typically be something that I can easily replace as I do exactly as you say.. don't run into PvP with a good weapon. If I do lose something it is usually my fault for not preparing. As a guilded player if I ever do lose something I just grab some friends and go farming. I have disarmers, and I know how to play against disarmers. This really applies to a lot of us on the server. I am mainly thinking of the lone players and newer players. If a lone player is lucky enough to get into a group, and is lucky enough to win a roll for a high level item, and then just has it stolen by a pre-epic feat. What are the chances of the player getting that weapon replaced? Even those in guilds have a hard time replacing some items. I think the thing that really is disturbing is that it is a pre-epic feat and makes it really easy to steal items that are pretty hard to come by. How many disarmers have high lvl items from places they have never been, and prolly could never survive, simply because they can disarm?

I dunno.. this is one of the things I don't really care about personally.. ya it gets frustrating sometimes, but it doesn't really effect me.. well it would hurt some of my builds if it ever got nerfed. I was really thinking about the rest of the server and how it effects other players.

[Rufio]

Honestly, I would like to see disarmed weapons hit your pack every time, not because I am worried about losing weapons in pvp, but because I have a disarming build that I almost never disarm with because I don't want to worry about giving back weapons (because I will every single time if someone asks, in fact, I have never kept a disarmed weapon)

The problem I have with disarming is that someone can disarm you and grab your weapon off the ground before you can get to it yourself, and even if you are able to recover, equip a new weapon, and kill them, they still have your weapon and you can't recover it. I think if someone has a weapon that they disarmed from you in combat, you should be able to recover it by killing them. It is silly that you wouldn't be able to pick your weapon off the dead body laying right in front of you.

[MLoki]

[quote="Rainswept"]...Disarm has already been tweaked to prevent highbies from disarming lowbies etc, and it's already been tweaked to keep your weapons from ending up on top of a wall somewhere.[quote]

Unfortunatly, this has already been proven to not work as intended. In some situations disarm bypasses the intended script and works as the original feat regardless of level or %. Some players have known this for a long time and take advantage of it. I did see a 40th level character disarm and grab a weapon from a character in the upper teens. When he found out the toons level he did return it but it does prove the script has errors. If the script was altered to make the weapon always return to the inventory then those situations were the script wasn't working would become better known and stealing disarmed weapons could be disallowed.

The only thing that bothers me about disarm in it's current form is that there is no way to retrieve the weapon from anybody who picks the weapon up, even if you kill that player. If this functioned more like Pick Pocket by making the weapon drop again if you killed the disarmer or somebody who picked it up then I wouldn't have a problem with it at all.

[Rainswept]

Well fixing flaws in what's intended is an entirely different matter, obviously if it's not working that should be fixed.

[VagaStorm]

If this functioned more like Pick Pocket by making the weapon drop again if you killed the disarmer or somebody who picked it up then I wouldn't have a problem with it at all.

I didnt know that about pick pocket.

[MLoki]

If this functioned more like Pick Pocket by making the weapon drop again if you killed the disarmer or somebody who picked it up then I wouldn't have a problem with it at all.

I didnt know that about pick pocket.

http://www.nsrealm.com/ns4wiki/index.php/Pick_Pocket

In addition, all stolen items are persistently tagged with the original owner's identity. If the original owner should happen to hunt down the thief and kill him, the stolen item will be returned.

This should be implemented for disarmed weapons as well.

[Tsavong]

If you don't have good enough discipline, don't take weapons you can't afford to lose into PVP, its as simple as that. Disarm isn't broken, it's a pain by design.

Ah but what is enough discipline I have had high discipline (85 or so) characters disarmed by a pure fighter when it had bard back up and I did not. In fact I think if a disarmer has a bard back up and the disarmie dose not most characters become vulnerable.

I do like the suggestion of getting your weapon back if you kill the guy who picked it up after it was disarmed to the ground.

[Shadowalker]

Seams that many feel as do I that disarm take away more from the pvp xperiance then it adds.. Full dicipilne with esf and gear is like useing newspaper for an umbreala.. it blocks most attempts at first but quickly fails as the odds roll on.. and in the case of dragon disarmers.. "Say goodbye to Kansas, Dorthy."

[Rainswept]

It's not as if only one side has disarmers here.

[Amoenotep]

Unfortunatly, this has already been proven to not work as intended. In some situations disarm bypasses the intended script and works as the original feat regardless of level or %. Some players have known this for a long time and take advantage of it.

we call that exploiting the engine where i come from.

[MLoki]

Unfortunatly, this has already been proven to not work as intended. In some situations disarm bypasses the intended script and works as the original feat regardless of level or %. Some players have known this for a long time and take advantage of it.

we call that exploiting the engine where i come from.

I agree and it has been reported several times before to no avail. Even when the script obviously failed and this was pointed out I was told nothing could be done about it. Amazingly enough the same players continue to make disarmers that are oddly effective at getting weapons to hit the floor at well above the 50% rate without having to use a whip. If the script doesn't work as advertised and Disarm checks can greatly out match Discipline checks then perhaps something should be done about it.

[Lokey]

A real fix is linux only. The only linux VM we can get in the data center is 64bit, which has issues with some plugins, and we don't have the dev talent to adjust the problem nwnx modules (acaos threw in the towel on that as well, and he's a programmer of Joran caliber).

The disarm stuff in is the worst type of fix. The engine does stuff, we try to undo it with as little visible weirdness as possible. If we removed the weap hits ground part (which I changed recently but is unsatisfactory in other ways), then it'd be a lot easier to flag as stolen. In fact, I think some code got lost or cross-plumbed somewhere along the line, might look into.

If you are that attached to your items/characters/whatever, don't play here. We can't make that sort of guarantee that our changes will work 100%. See if another nwn server can make that kind of assurance or find a new game to play.

[Ryddwillow]

I think disarm works fine but the problem is with lag and being surround by many a disarmer. A pure fighter is going to naturally disarm a pure rogue in a fight 1 on 1. if a fighter or Barb or anything else carries a 2 handed weapon then you should know to switch to 1 handed weapon. A bard built right could cause this problem too. Need to defend for this is all.