Your Armor discussion

[Amoenotep]

your all high...this is an armor discussion

[mining]

shifters are shifters, you can dump as much str, con, dex into your toon as you want and it won't carry over...those stats are auto set with shapes. int, cha, wis you can change to your hearts content..but with the anti monk scripts in it just doesn't matter.

*cough*

You know some forms use your own con (-racial bonuses that aren't subrace bonuses) and those are the GWS 1-4 and humanoid shape ones.

Half Ogre Barbarian Illithid shifter I wrote up to see if it would work gets 61 self buffed AB and 69 AC (No blinding speed). Not great, but given that it had 400+40+40+160+180=820 HP without con gear (so more like 1k HP) and a bit of strength, 54 dex, Barbarian and illithid DR and that awesome illithid red VFX drain thingy. There are far better builds, but it's easily possible to bust mid 60s AC. All I'd have needed is, I dunno, an actual build rather than wiki stats and an excell spreadsheet that you press random buttons in. .

It also had a punny backstory:

The illithidimate son of...

[Daltian]

How did this thread turn out to be about shifters? I thought we were talking about armours?

[mining]

How did this thread turn out to be about shifters? I thought we were talking about armours?

Shifter AC+DR of full plate too high if changes are made > I am so manly statements > Raks have too high AC > some ontopic stuff > Tep and linux briefly mention shifters, ratifying the discussion > your post.

[Jacks Revenge]

In my opinion, dont change what isnt broken, I think the system is fine how it is, and wasting a Dev's time changing the whole thing is useless, I think a Dev's time could better be used making new Zones, new gear, new something, hell maybe even AO jobs? This is just my opinion, and I know its worth about 1.9 cents.

[weasel423]

7 pages? my word....

[cRaZy8or5e]

I'll give you a whole nickel for your comments jack because the reality is we've been playing with this system for a long time now, and it really hasn't caused a lot of complaint. It isn't broken at all really.

However, I do like the idea of balancing the server for strength builds vs dex builds, without having to resort to building a pure fighter.

I really like the idea of removing the massive critical from ALL weapons, make overwhelming critical pertinent once more.

Then change the physical resistances for armor as follows.

35+ lvl heavy armor they get:
-/15 resistances to all three physical damage types
-/20 to two physical damage type.
-/25 to one physical damage type (that’s probably too much)

Medium/Light Armor:
-/10 resistance to all three
-/15 to two physical damage types
-/20 to one physical damage type

Robes:
-/10 for one damage type
-/5 for two damage types

Leave the elemental immunities as they are right now.

Heavy plate has that inherent negative to your dex check creating a glaring weakness that the right magically inclined build can easily exploit. So make a high level toon wearing that plate a juggernaut that can shrug off most physical attacks. I think you'd see DwD with more life than what they have right now. They wouldn't even get touched by physical damage lol. The resistances may be too over the top, but since we're just discussing anyway . . .

[Chernobyl_Glow]

and all those are good ideas crazy. i like them. but it still doesn't change the fact that a str based character is SLOW. and that is the achielles heal of a str based toon. i learned that some of your own good advice. "never build a toon without blinding speed." anyone can just turn and run away from you. its critical.

and its just the speed. not even the extra ab/ac and the extra attack is as critical as the speed. and not just for combat. you literally can't get anywhere. you can't meet up with people timely for parties or raids etc. you certainly can't raid alone. it takes you forever to get there AND you're a glass cannon?!? one unlucky swing and you're back staring at the long daunting walk again. running through map after map or this vast land. its sooo lousy. begging for haste all the time.

without speed is there a point to a str based weapon master or str based paladin? who builds those? a str based characters is a huge determent to playability. not a concern of balance or motivation etc. better armour ( <-- ) or more damage (etc) isn't going to change that.

- glow -

ps. oh and i like my harper a lot (thx crazy) but he's dex based and wears robes. does that make me criminal? lol

[Charles I]

A couple of thoughts. Use Weapon type vs. armor modifiers. Certain weapon types do better or worse against specific types of armor. EG. Slashing weapons do poorly against plate armors but do well against robes and scale. Bludgeon does better against chain than splint. These can be added to weapon properties (showing up as a positive or negative to hit against the different armor types) making certain types of armor more or less effective in a given situation. There is a table in old players handbook. Modifiers fell out of use as they were a nuisance to remember and use. Remove physical damage immunity/resistance from worn armors. Only have elemental immunity/resistance on worn armors. Remove elemental damage immunity/resistance from shields. Only have physical damage immunity/resistance on shields. In a somewhat related idea, remove massive crits from weapons.

[Chernobyl_Glow]

that's a very complicated and involved correction for something that is not really broken. you'll still be slow. hence you'll still opt to be dex based. why go through a massive change effort and all the pain associated with it only to achieve a minimally impactful and fully irrelevant effect?

- glow -

[emil392]

Well, if it was a DM opinion based on what he does in his pnp DnD, he needs to go all or nothing. Changing tower shield? Welll hey, in pnp they grant concealemt, so lets do that, too.

Also as far as how "unwieldy they are" Well, I'm not guessing everyone in your campaigns has +8str gloves (or most likely belt in pnp). Any +8 to strength immediately make you able to wield those shields as if they we paper plates with hand grips.

I guess that what I'm getting at again though, this just all seems unecessary. A cloth armor reduction on dr I can maybe see that. But don't nerf the dex build, their poor AB vs pretty much anything unless they're an AA wont make up for the single digit damage they be doing against plate wearers.

[Daltian]

I'll give you a whole nickel for your comments jack because the reality is we've been playing with this system for a long time now, and it really hasn't caused a lot of complaint. It isn't broken at all really.

However, I do like the idea of balancing the server for strength builds vs dex builds, without having to resort to building a pure fighter.

I really like the idea of removing the massive critical from ALL weapons, make overwhelming critical pertinent once more.

Then change the physical resistances for armor as follows.

35+ lvl heavy armor they get:
-/15 resistances to all three physical damage types
-/20 to two physical damage type.
-/25 to one physical damage type (that’s probably too much)

Medium/Light Armor:
-/10 resistance to all three
-/15 to two physical damage types
-/20 to one physical damage type

Robes:
-/10 for one damage type
-/5 for two damage types

Leave the elemental immunities as they are right now.

Heavy plate has that inherent negative to your dex check creating a glaring weakness that the right magically inclined build can easily exploit. So make a high level toon wearing that plate a juggernaut that can shrug off most physical attacks. I think you'd see DwD with more life than what they have right now. They wouldn't even get touched by physical damage lol. The resistances may be too over the top, but since we're just discussing anyway . . .

I don't get it. Why would medium armor have less protection then heavy? Is it because super AC it gives? Or so all barbarians can delevel and take heavy armor feat?

[Amoenotep]

as a rule of thumb medium armor would never cover as much of your body as heavy armor. so there would be alot of open spots to get hit.

[Daltian]

as a rule of thumb medium armor would never cover as much of your body as heavy armor. so there would be alot of open spots to get hit.

As a rule of thumb one could never "cast" a spell or shift into a dragon. We are talking balance here not logic.

[Amoenotep]

logic all you want..its not called medium armor because it costs 3/4 the price of full plate.