how can you say that sl mobs arent op?

[report]

They dispell, cripple strike, web entangle (no save) , and harm you . they are a lot and with a decent mid 40 ab everyone whos lagging a second ,you can have 80 ac you get your hp down so much you can die by the mobs.
Someone said when you have problems with mobs you are building wrong? hmmmmmmmmm....

[mining]

They always kill my lowbie AO toons .

Also, AO BGs smite the hell out of my clerics - they hurt. Similar MA casters and RK stunner dorfs.

[Amoenotep]

i can't tell if he's talking about epics or normals....most pc's can nuke entire waves of sl npcs pretty fast so..wtf are you using?

[Daral0085]

most pc's can nuke entire waves of sl npcs pretty fast so..wtf are you using?

This. It's hard for me to imagine how someone can have trouble clearing out SL defenders. The epics take a while to kill, but are not particularly threatening. Probably strongest defenders I have seen are RK epics, but even they aren't a problem for a reasonably strong toon (unless gorm spams 500 of them in NC HQ map again).

[$chase$]

he has 12 post all complaining about something.

[report]

take it to the humor side if you like, but you will miss the reality of things. I was fighting the cradle mobs and a defender killed the defender (pure barb) but as he respawned (i was still unscratched) the sl clerics started with their harm spamm, 600 hp went down to 100 or something. You know barbs don't need to rest so when he came back i was near death, easy win.
Not complaining despite you'd love to say it, but only saying that this doesn't happen in other cradles.
There are a lot of people that think the same way, too bad some can't access this forum because of gfw. But if you care you can ask them in the game. Its the people who keep raiding.

[Bargeld]

If your pure barb has 600 HP, you did something wrong... or you aren't 40 yet. If you aren't 40 yet, then you aren't really making a fair report, because the defenders (regular AND epic) are really designed to defend against a lvl 40, so you are at a disadvantage. Also, SL/MA have been the main holders of the relics for quite a while now, so I wonder how much experience you have raiding the other cradles in comparison to ours.

When you look at all of the factions, they each have their annoyances, let me offer some additional details for each:

TC: As you run through melencia to the den to raid, you are almost guaranteed to get spell breached. Once inside the den, the NPCs will also dispel you. They also all have greataxes (for crits of 100+) and a fat cow summon each, so within 30 seconds of loading the map, you are fighting roughly 14 enemies inside a soup can of a room. That's just awesome fun for IGM casters. Oh and their regular NPCs will harm also. Epics have pretty good spot too. They have a named NPC (The Wolf) who is not an epic defender, but has a higher CR than the regular npcs.

NC: They have more NPCs running through their city than any other faction. They dispel and breach too, and most have some sort of healing ability. Once inside the cradle, it's usually pretty easy to clear the regular NPC defenders, they buff for ages before fighting. The epics tho... if you are evil, expect 600+ crit smites often. And you thought harms were bad... They also have a named NPC, Grand Marshall Brea or something. He's a bit higher CR than the regular ones too.

AO: Their NPCs are wimpy and running through town is a breeze. The breath weapons can be annoying for non reflex toons, but for the most part they are all just punching bags, spaced out and hidden in 6 or 7 rooms. The epics will disarm and kd with like 65 ab, they have a ton of HP. The epics can be pretty mean, even vs a 40. They have a named NPC, but he can't move, so he's just a punching bag with a few extra HP.

RK: Their NPCs are also wimpy and it's just as easy to run through town as AO. Once in the cradle, they have 3 or 4 named NPCs, Tagnus is a caster mage, prognar is a crippling rogue, and then there's another 1 or 2 at the cradle itself. They all heal somehow or another, and are just punching bags as well. The epics on the other hand are some of the toughest out there. DC 50ish stun fist with 3, 4, or 5 of em with monk speed. Maybe 70 ac, pretty good HP. I know a lot of 40s that hesitate to solo that room with epics there. If there is a PC defender holding the room, it's almost impossible to beat that cradle.

MA: To be honest, I don't know a lot about MA cradle. The NPC's seem to be a good mix of casters and golems. They tend to toss fireballs out a lot and so they blind friendly drow and svirf often. I've heard the epics are pretty tough, premonition and EMA and a lot of casting. They don't have any named NPCs in the temple.

LA: Let me just say that I hate Ghaele. Of all the NPC's out there, Ghaele and Skara rangers probably top my list of 'most hated'. He invis's, he heals, he resses. There are usually 10 of em on each map (i never quite understood that, being that he is named and all). Ghaele isn't hard to kill or any real danger, just more of an annoyance. Once in the cradle, it's pretty easy to clear, although LA usually spawns a good amount of NPCs. They have 2 or 3 named NPCs in their cradle room too, most are clcs that will res other NPCs. The epics are awesome. I've always liked (and hated) the LA epics. They won't outright destroy you in 5 seconds, but don't give them 10 secs or they will. They are relentless cannons with decent AC and HP, and there are usually 5 of them.

SL: Our guys invis, heal, and res. They will dispel. They also die like ants. The best thing we got going is the raw number of 'em and their spawn formation in the middle of the cradle. I've seen numerous raiders get overconfident of their abilities only to get stuck in a mob of 20 NPCs and their summons and
end up dying a slow death to harms or the needling of the normal NPCs. The epics are meh... they hide, which has caused a lot of raiders to get frustrated when they go to tap in an 'empty' room and it just shouts the rally for defense message. They CAN paralyze, but I don't think the DC is very high, although I don't really know. All I know is that I've never actually seen anyone get paralyzed by one during a raid. Once they strike and break stealth, I believe they are an easy victory. We have a single named NPC in a secluded room who does not attack, nor does she count towards the defender count when tapping the cradle... alive or dead, she won't matter when you tap.

After all of this I have 2 things... First, I pose the question for yourself to answer: could you have described the cradle defenses in this level of detail? If the answer is 'no', then I would suggest gaining more experience with them before comparing them or offering improvement suggestions. Second, as you can see, each cradle has pros and cons vs each type of raider. The topic that you have mentioned (harm by the clerics) isn't an issue vs most other toons. Personally, I have a toon that is built around the harm spell and touch attacks. I expected to use him vs barbs and shifters... the stuff with a lot of DR and/or AC & HP. Harm destroys barbs... harm makes SDs laugh, and clerics with UEF or SR. You've mentioned an ability by an NPC in a cradle that is the absolute bane of your toon... That's like SL saying the Epic smites in NC are OP. But really, we (SL) are the only ones who are guaranteed to be evil. The response by everyone else when we claim NC epic OPness is 'don't be evil'. I offer the same solution for you, if you don't want to get harmed to death, don't raid us with a 600HP pure barb.

[frogofpeace]

Yeah, the sl epics aren't so bad. Nasty for unprotected melee toons, sure, what with cripple and all the aoe damage from the other mobs. NC's are worse, which doesn't make up for the lack of rogue. LA mobs chug like nobody's business, which is maybe why DMz play out of there OH NO I DINT!

[Alkapwn]

Lesson learned

[dethonlegs]

General SL mobs swarm like flies on sh#t if a raider stands still long enough. Can be a problem outside of relic room if the entire map has been pulled (which does happen). If your defending with a stunner and the enemy doesnt have DR then hilarity ensues - so many npc's crowd in that a defender can no longer reach the target and instead auto hits a friendly - loosing faction and raider can't move due to the swarm around them. If the raider stays prone for very long they may be in trouble.

I've had similiar happen to me while raiding with my sqishy mage outside of RK, but nowhere near as bad as what i've seen happen in SL. I wish MA npc's were as enthusiastic

[Nyeleni]

@ Bargeld: Yes, MA has a named NPC in the temple.
And the named NPC in the AO temple is their healer... hardly a named obstacle.

And my 1000hp barbarian has died in the SL temple too, because I wasn't paying attention .

[Rufio]

I actually find the SL non-epic defenders to be the toughest when you are solo because of how they are all clustered together and swarm all at once. They are weak individually, but most toons are going to take some damage because with so many attacks flying all at once they are going to roll a few 20's. With a low ac toon you'll probably get hit a lot more. The clerics like to keep things healed, so it can take a little bit of time before you start getting enemies to drop, especially as a dexer. It gets much easier with small a party because you can spread them out and take them down individually very easily.

MA defenders breach, which is annoying, but otherwise they are no more than speed bumps. MA epics on the other hand are a huge pain. I'd rather fight RK epics. They spam spells that you can't avoid like ice storm, so you are going to take damage from them no matter what, and on top of that they each summon mummy dust to melee while they cast. If you don't have evasion against them it gets even worse.

Edit: I'm not saying any of these are overpowered.

[Shadowalker]

I wish MA npc's were as enthusiastic

Take away the brothel in Garagoth and ma locals wont be so stingy with thier lives.

[mgrjebbo]

he has 12 post all complaining about something.

LMAO. His forum name is report,..... fitting.

[Ajantis.]

Someone's incognito....