Food for thought

[dethonlegs]

MA has casters + breachers (?) and some good bridges

The MA relic room has it's share of issues. Yes, it's nice and open and gives mages room to move, however the side passages are always abused by players wanting to break line of sight or just run in circles all day. Would be good if they were removed alltogether.

[mining]

MA has casters + breachers (?) and some good bridges

The MA relic room has it's share of issues. Yes, it's nice and open and gives mages room to move, however the side passages are always abused by players wanting to break line of sight or just run in circles all day. Would be good if they were removed alltogether.

Everyone has a LOS breaker.

[dethonlegs]

Everyone has a LOS breaker

It's more about how easy is it to continually remain out of LOS should you wish to, especially 1 on 1. Most pvp in that room degrades to stupid hide and seek for half the time of the encounter.

[Daral0085]

MA has a lot of advantages. There's only one entry into the city, which stretches for two whole maps before you even enter the city (garagoth plains, garagoth road, city proper, relic chamber). On top of that, the road has a bridge chokepoint and a gate, and the city has another TWO bridges and ANOTHER gate, and the NPCs in the city definitely clog up those bridges. In particular the dumbass golems will sit there spamming fireballs at you and they're crit immune so they take a while to kill for some toons. Yes, the cradle has pillars that you attackers can exploit, I do that a lot myself with my SDs for great victory, but I think all things considered, MA is pretty good.

The biggest disadvantage of MA is that boat comes out really near the city and dragon is not too far either. But compared to AO/TC, MA is way ahead.

[Daltian]

I would say that MA has best cradle for defense followed by NC. I also have to disagree that AO suffers a lot by having ferry close by. While it makes access to AO cradle possible from 2 directions there is only one way out which isn't that bad.

[Acesen414]

How many ways does SL have into and out of the city? 5-6?

[mining]

I would say that MA has best cradle for defense followed by NC. I also have to disagree that AO suffers a lot by having ferry close by. While it makes access to AO cradle possible from 2 directions there is only one way out which isn't that bad.

It's the fastest turnaround from dead to in the city for a raider, though. Toons with monk getting there before defenders is crazy.

[hond]

-AO has a ferry right next to their city, but has dragons? They kind of have the worst deal, in some respects.

i don't understand very well what you want to say with that...AO is the worst city for escape after a raid...you have to pass by two gate (mean 2 transitions) defenders barracks are just near that first gate and they can wait an regroup there...then you have to pass throw dragon aura fear DC32, who cover the both way to the last gate (other transition).
As players waiting in a map have a ventage in transiters players (when map finish to load you can be on floor by a kd token or already targeted by a hell ball or a spell ). That why in my opinion is one of the best city (with MA) to defend...
6 access to SL city is just ridiculous (3 by house tunels,1 by legion tunel,1 by hiden tunel, 1 by the cave behind barracks) with the particular of hiden tunel...that access will have to be only for SL/MA players and house tunnels definitvly close to exterior, just an intern comunication...about the only bridge outside temple, is a doble bridge, you can't camp on pure fighter to token oponent trying to flee, he go on other side....and finally the Npcs...SL npcs don't pots and have 100 hps, they are so weaks ...and they spawn all in the middle around the craddle...sorc/wizard enter inside and wail them in 1 spell...only our epics are decents..not for their deadly attack...they just hide and it make long time to kill them...but compared with AO epics, SL ones are boyscouts...how many times players loose lvl, dying by those epics??? they hit really hard and their AB is not bad at all...also the regular defenders will make breath damages to all no evader toons....someone have been hurt by a legion guard 1 day , if not stunned or floored ?? in AO craddle you have to go on each room for found defenders, who mean more time loose than any other craddle....If having a boat in the city in barely balance with all those ventages, i want a boat in SL...

[Mixtli]

Remember how it is to defend in Melencia, and you will all feel better. We don't even have a door

[Shadowalker]

Remember how it is to defend in Melencia, and you will all feel better. We don't even have a door

QFT

[cRaZy8or5e]

How many ways does SL have into and out of the city? 5-6?

at least 5-6 that branch and interconnect on your approaches into SL, they do get one nice choke point at the bridge approaching the temple with a couple decent mobs that can trip up a raider (though they're just as likely to get in the way of the defenders, especially if the raider is a monk ... w/fear aura).

TC gets the shortest end of the stick imo, no real chokepoints and 3 ways into the city, that branch and branch again as you get further away from the city.

I would like to see the temple in AO be raised, so defenders would always have the high ground. Currently when you're coming from the ferry, you can get the high ground against defenders and that just seems counterintuitive that it would be designed in that manner. However, they do have really nice chokepoints if you're trying to leave with a relic.

[Chernobyl_Glow]

I believe that in a relic war, Laufer once touched the AO cradle just before being killed. He respawned and made it back to the relic room in time to grab the relic. That shouldn't be possible. That said, the rooms are pretty balanced unless you prefer them to be identical. TC probably has the worst.

I personally think that Relic PVP would be stimulated if the travel times were dramatically lessened. When raiders come to RK and are defeated, the action then stops for like 30 minutes. Then they finally show up again. There is some fun strategy that we've all learned over the years about how to minimize this. But really? Do we need there to be ~30 mazes between relic rooms? Why not like 8!! <-- cRaZy!

There have been times where a stolen relic from SL (or whereever) causes the fight to move and it winds up all the way in Avendell. If the distances were shorter then these fights would wind up in the opposer's relic room. I don't think you should delete maps, just create some bypasses or add some more dragons or something.

If the travel times were shorter, then PVP would be much more frantic. I think this would be a good thing.

Just my thought.

- Glow -

[Nyeleni]

Heh, capping for NC is really the worst. I suppose raiding too. (That is why I rarely bother with it anymore).
RK has the tunnels and Nexus to get fast everywhere they need. Even raiding it, isn't that bad, if you use the hidden tunnel.
MA seems to be as far away as NC from everything else, but not really. Nexus to FD, Grey Shores and Dragon are pretty nifty, and don't underestimate their faction portals.
Melencia has it prolly a bit better than SL (which I'd say is on the same level as MA, [funny how far SL is away from MA though, being allies]), and AO is just a hub .
My opinion doesn't reflect the tactical disposition (bridges etc) or location of the faction cities, but their geographical spread over Aetheria and just how fast they connect to each other.

That said, I wasn't sure I agree with Glow about shortening the ways. But then again longer ways don't let you enjoy the bonus either. You just have to wait longer for the raiders to reappear. Therefore it's prolly a sound idea.

[Amoenotep]

one giant open room with all the cradles in it and thats where all the relic pvp happens?

[Bargeld]

Hahaha! I remember that! And I agree with glow on this one. Even with only 3 or 4 raiders against 10 defenders, if you time things right and are simply relentless, then you are guaranteed to snatch a relic from AO.

NC is just a pain, the distance isn't really THAT bad. But you burn a ton of gp if you try a relentless assault.

I agree with MA and SL being close to the same distance for raids. From FD to MA is about the same as evenshire to SL, which is still pretty close and can foster relentless attacks.

SL is fun to defend in those battles, because it moves the line of defense out of the city to silver x-ing. As mentioned, this can lead to some good battles from there to ave. MA is the same, moving the line of defense out to the first plains map, right at that trans.

AO... well you can stand at the ferry and defend, but you only get 1 map of fallback. The foothills, in front of the gate is area #2, and that's a good spot for battle. And they have a door to alert them of sneakies.

TC... well we all know TC is screwed out of the gate. Closest to Ave from dragon. Closest to Ave by a straight run. Only the 1 city map with 3 entrances. Their only saving grace is that it's REALLY hard to find a resting spot around that whole area. They have no abandoned rooms or rooms with neutral NPCs. There are red woodland NPCs in every square inch of every map for 5 maps in every direction. For casters who get raised, its annoying as anything.

RK isn't bad from MA and oasis binds, through the hidden spider room. But that is still longer than any of the other routes. And there are really only 2 viable ways to RK... that one, and through the underdark/tunnels. And that's annoying. Let me say this, Laufer (30 monk speed) with DM haste on ran from SL to RK in 2:30. And that was really hauling butt (stupid bugs on that one bridge )

As far as the cradle rooms themselves...

Yeah TC is screwed again, lol.

NC's leads to great fights, I like doors. Seriously.

Same with AO, although that's too many doors. And the nexus entrance was removed from NC years ago because of complaints then. Why does AO have one?

RK is a good temple.

SL is a good temple, although you can waste a lot of time looking for sneakies because of the size of the room. It allows sneakies to take paths around the spotters. The door isn't that bad, except that it is a tad close to the cradle itself.

MA is a corner sneaker's dream. Other than the sneaky bias, its a great room.

Epic defenders...

5 years later and i still have never seen really seen one of our epics hit anyone. They probably have a lot, right in from of me, but it looks just like a normal defender, and the damage isn't significant that I've seen. They don't mord or dispel. I've never noticed them assisting in a battle ever.

MA defenders can be nasty. They mord and take forever to kill.

TC defenders can hurt ya some. If there are epics with any PC defenders, that's gonna be a tough fight unless you have a significant numbers advantage.

I'm biased towards NC defenders. 650 smites are outrageous IMO. Otherwise, they seem pretty average.

RK defenders shouldn't stun. A raider should be able to at least TRY to run for their lives vs an impending xp loss death. All it takes is one stun, then you got 4 NPC stunners spamming and chaining till the cows come home. You will die if you even have a chance of failing that save. Oh yeah, and they listen moderately well too.

AO defenders are mean buggers. Just a tad on the badass side... they could get knocked down a notch and still be fair.

_____________

This should be a topic on it's own.