Lvl 16 weapons
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Kerothennesen
- Noob
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 5:11 pm
Speaking of lvl 16 weapons, I have seen absolutely no Whips above the ones you can buy in basic shops(I.E. not Avendell) and I've never found a Dwarven Waraxe in a random drop from a monster or guard.
Anyone know of these drops, please tell me, more about the Waraxe than the whip, because I'm beginning to think HoTU is only seen in brief glimpses in NS, such as Waraxes or some unique looking misc. items.(Maybe those aren't unique, but the model for "Tapestry" in inventory is something I've never seen before in a module)
Currently I'm happy to see there is a lvl 16 greataxe, and if you'd like to know from where, then post here a request.(I don't want to spoil it for anyone)
Anyone know of these drops, please tell me, more about the Waraxe than the whip, because I'm beginning to think HoTU is only seen in brief glimpses in NS, such as Waraxes or some unique looking misc. items.(Maybe those aren't unique, but the model for "Tapestry" in inventory is something I've never seen before in a module)
Currently I'm happy to see there is a lvl 16 greataxe, and if you'd like to know from where, then post here a request.(I don't want to spoil it for anyone)
Only Char so far- Kero Thennesen(NC pure FT)
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Smatchy-mo
- Noob
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- Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 4:54 pm
- Location: Arizona
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Kerothennesen
- Noob
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 5:11 pm
I went to dwarven city not too long ago, and from what I can tell there are no Dwarven Waraxe drops(from the warriors, guardians or clerics), even though the "Skullcleavers" use them.
It actually looks like they use enhanced steel waraxes, but im not sure, it just has the same looking set up with the broader axe-head.
Hoping for a post of someone who found a special waraxe or whip, or maybe they will be part of the elemental planes
I think that'd be cool, but i would also hope for a lower lvl waraxe than 20+(like 16), being that the planes are supposed to be the epic-areas.
It actually looks like they use enhanced steel waraxes, but im not sure, it just has the same looking set up with the broader axe-head.
Hoping for a post of someone who found a special waraxe or whip, or maybe they will be part of the elemental planes
I think that'd be cool, but i would also hope for a lower lvl waraxe than 20+(like 16), being that the planes are supposed to be the epic-areas.
Only Char so far- Kero Thennesen(NC pure FT)
All i know is the lvl 16 ranged weapons BLOW! Side by side...it looks like the devs just gave up on ranged weapons. My lvl 16 bow has these stats
Bow of the Forest
+3 AB
2d6 Massive critical (are you serious? please! thats lame)
+3 mighty (Like im using the bow because of my awesome STR score)
Now lets add in my lvl 13 arrows
+1d10 damage (because I can't find lvl 16 arrows)
vs a lvl 16 Chief Gnoll Sword
+3 weapon enhancement (why doesn't a lvl 16 bow have this)
+2d6 piercing damage (bows also don't have that (in arrow or bow form)
+1d6 fire damage (wow! another thing all lvl 16 ranged items lack)
keen (holy cow! so far haven't seen this on any ranged items)
15meter glows white (now this is what I'm talking about, i want this on all lvl 16 items, including llv 16 rocks
)
I know im being sarcastic but just look at the stats! they don't even come close to comparison. Ranged weapons can't even have weapon enchantment cast on them.
This isn't the kind of sacrifice that should happen to people that want ranged weapons. Honestly what are people worried about? Bows, technically, are supposed to be better than swords (did you see legolas vs. gimli's score in LotR). Have you ever wielded a Turkish bow from the 13th century design? hello! these things could rip your head off WITH armor on. I don't see why a sword is ultimately better than a bow, nor do I see why range chars should be punished for wanting to attack from afar. Its either not fair or just not finished, either way it needs rethinking.
Bow of the Forest
+3 AB
2d6 Massive critical (are you serious? please! thats lame)
+3 mighty (Like im using the bow because of my awesome STR score)
Now lets add in my lvl 13 arrows
+1d10 damage (because I can't find lvl 16 arrows)
vs a lvl 16 Chief Gnoll Sword
+3 weapon enhancement (why doesn't a lvl 16 bow have this)
+2d6 piercing damage (bows also don't have that (in arrow or bow form)
+1d6 fire damage (wow! another thing all lvl 16 ranged items lack)
keen (holy cow! so far haven't seen this on any ranged items)
15meter glows white (now this is what I'm talking about, i want this on all lvl 16 items, including llv 16 rocks
)I know im being sarcastic but just look at the stats! they don't even come close to comparison. Ranged weapons can't even have weapon enchantment cast on them.
This isn't the kind of sacrifice that should happen to people that want ranged weapons. Honestly what are people worried about? Bows, technically, are supposed to be better than swords (did you see legolas vs. gimli's score in LotR). Have you ever wielded a Turkish bow from the 13th century design? hello! these things could rip your head off WITH armor on. I don't see why a sword is ultimately better than a bow, nor do I see why range chars should be punished for wanting to attack from afar. Its either not fair or just not finished, either way it needs rethinking.
I've tried fire, i've tried faith, and i've tried force, all I have left is hope.
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Kerothennesen
- Noob
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 5:11 pm
I definetly agree with ATI, archers need a bit of a boost in the weapon category.
As a bit of a side note, are there any "unique" unique things, because from what i can tell all the diff. armors and weapons that are lvl 16 are mostly almost exactly like each other, maybe with a different elemental attack, or elemental resist. Not saying its a bad thing, but just wondering if there were any things that "broke the mold" in terms of stats.
As a bit of a side note, are there any "unique" unique things, because from what i can tell all the diff. armors and weapons that are lvl 16 are mostly almost exactly like each other, maybe with a different elemental attack, or elemental resist. Not saying its a bad thing, but just wondering if there were any things that "broke the mold" in terms of stats.
Only Char so far- Kero Thennesen(NC pure FT)
The enhancement bonus vs attack bonus & lack of the keen property are toolset limitations, unfortunately.
Something like the NS3 ranged focus might be an idea, fine tuned. Not sure if it would be a good idea to have something like that added to AA builds, but it might be fun to try out.
Once the amount of gold floating around gets tweaked, having much better arrows available for purchase might be another idea (power offset by cost. Currently it's very easy to hoard gold, so it might be hard to balance until after a p-wipe).
Do infinite ammo items still crash the server? With one set type of ammo, you'd probably be back in the same boat, but might be an idea for a decent PvM weapon just the same.
Something like the NS3 ranged focus might be an idea, fine tuned. Not sure if it would be a good idea to have something like that added to AA builds, but it might be fun to try out.
Once the amount of gold floating around gets tweaked, having much better arrows available for purchase might be another idea (power offset by cost. Currently it's very easy to hoard gold, so it might be hard to balance until after a p-wipe).
Do infinite ammo items still crash the server? With one set type of ammo, you'd probably be back in the same boat, but might be an idea for a decent PvM weapon just the same.
I thought with SotU and HotU you could incorporate the Keen property to either the arrow or the bow and make bows weapon enhanced. I know I have using the toolset for my own games. (that bow i made killed a mock g1 in two hits ) Even if they couldn't make the weapon enhancement increases they could substitute by increasing damage to the bows and arrows beyond that of normal lvl 16 items. The armor enhancements work to a point where a certain amount of daamge is dealt over the enhancement to which then the player is dealt damage.
The problem is most people have piercing resist items meaning that the arrows deal only a small fraction of what they would against a naked char. So my arrows that normally do about 12-15 damage only do an avg of 4-7 on a armored lvl 20 char. Which means taht the arrows get soaked by any spell that increases their armor bonus to +5. To solve this problem, the devs coudl give BOTH bows and arrows a 2d6 damage bonus (with a unique 1d6 bonus for unique bows) at lvl 16 making them have a possibility of superceding the armor bonuses.
As for arrows, yeha just make the arrows ridiculously expensive. If there's lots of money, the wya to change that is high priced items.
The problem with infinite arrow items are that the arrow it self normally stinks (its just a regular arrow) so all the good parts HAVE to be on the bow. If the bow isn't crazily buffed up, the arrow won't do squat. I took a really awesome idea to an infinite ammo bow, but I didn't add weapon enhancement and it stunk. I dont know about the crashing problems with this in the server though so...i can't comment there.
I also think there is misconception on my part for AA's, when you get the eweapon enhancement for an AA you don't deal extra damage like a normal enhancement, you just get an attack bonus increase every two levels right? I mea that would make a lvl 20 AA have the ability to pierce armor enhancement +10 (which is crazy!). I think the AA enhancements only give bonuses to AB, maybe damage, but don't count as actual armor enhancement supressors.
So my solutions are either,
If enhancement can't happen to bows, then why not make the bows and arrows deal more damage in order to soak through the armor enhancements of most other chars (with more unique arrows and bows doing better and better amounts of damage)
Or
Just make bows and arrows like melee weapons of their lvl (with respect to uniqueness). All i know is that massive criticals on a bow is not very good, unless it has keen, and I take the imp. critical feat, which then it might be useful 17-20 crit range. (which is a good number becasue 6 shots per round means you'll get a crit eventually).
) Even if they couldn't make the weapon enhancement increases they could substitute by increasing damage to the bows and arrows beyond that of normal lvl 16 items. The armor enhancements work to a point where a certain amount of daamge is dealt over the enhancement to which then the player is dealt damage. The problem is most people have piercing resist items meaning that the arrows deal only a small fraction of what they would against a naked char. So my arrows that normally do about 12-15 damage only do an avg of 4-7 on a armored lvl 20 char. Which means taht the arrows get soaked by any spell that increases their armor bonus to +5. To solve this problem, the devs coudl give BOTH bows and arrows a 2d6 damage bonus (with a unique 1d6 bonus for unique bows) at lvl 16 making them have a possibility of superceding the armor bonuses.
As for arrows, yeha just make the arrows ridiculously expensive. If there's lots of money, the wya to change that is high priced items.
The problem with infinite arrow items are that the arrow it self normally stinks (its just a regular arrow) so all the good parts HAVE to be on the bow. If the bow isn't crazily buffed up, the arrow won't do squat. I took a really awesome idea to an infinite ammo bow, but I didn't add weapon enhancement and it stunk. I dont know about the crashing problems with this in the server though so...i can't comment there.
I also think there is misconception on my part for AA's, when you get the eweapon enhancement for an AA you don't deal extra damage like a normal enhancement, you just get an attack bonus increase every two levels right? I mea that would make a lvl 20 AA have the ability to pierce armor enhancement +10 (which is crazy!). I think the AA enhancements only give bonuses to AB, maybe damage, but don't count as actual armor enhancement supressors.
So my solutions are either,
If enhancement can't happen to bows, then why not make the bows and arrows deal more damage in order to soak through the armor enhancements of most other chars (with more unique arrows and bows doing better and better amounts of damage)
Or
Just make bows and arrows like melee weapons of their lvl (with respect to uniqueness). All i know is that massive criticals on a bow is not very good, unless it has keen, and I take the imp. critical feat, which then it might be useful 17-20 crit range. (which is a good number becasue 6 shots per round means you'll get a crit eventually).
I've tried fire, i've tried faith, and i've tried force, all I have left is hope.
No, the limitations still apply - no keen & attack bonus instead of enhancement.
The attack bonus does work to defeat a damage reduction (ie, +3/10) just like an enhancement bonus would, but since none of the current NS4 items have damage reduction bonuses except for what is available through spells and scrolls, just damage resistence (ie, resist 10/-) and damage immunity (ie, 10% immunity bonus), you can replicate the effect of an enhancement bonus simply by adding +1 to +3 piercing damage bonuses to the arrows. Bioware already does this with its stock +1 to +5 arrows. AC isn't the stumbling block (no reduction items in the game), it's the resist & immunity AND a Bioware problem with damage types.
Evidently, due to some defect in the game mechanics, adding in damage bonuses like slashing or bludgeoning doesn't work as you expect it to. From what I understand, additional physical bonuses just get rolled into the overall damage type for a particular weapon (ie, so +2d6 bludgeon ends up getting eaten by pierce damage resistence or immunity as though it was +2d6 pierce), so it's problematic to do the same thing with ranged weapons vs armour as is currently done with melee vs armour. You can't just switch arrows and get the same effect as switching from longsword (slashing) to warhammer (bludgeoning) vs a resistent opponent. This makes it comparitively easy to deal with anyone using a bow - you just switch to as much pierce resist & immunity as possible.
An AA's Enchant Arrow does count towards to-hit, damage, and bypassing damage reduction. But again, since there are no reduction items in the game beyond spell effects, the damage gets soaked by both the damage resistence and % immunity.
The NS3 solution of adding the ranged weapon focus (which adds a considerable amount of non-soakable damage) would be a possible solution for non-AA archers, but I suspect it might be overkill if available to an AA build. A mobile AA with Called Shot & an opponent with no access to any sort of Freedom effect would be a really one-sided fight.
On-hit spell effects on the arrows might be an interesting alternative. Since the level of spell effect can be chosen, you can fine tune arrows to promote tactics instead of just plunking down a set damage bonus.
The attack bonus does work to defeat a damage reduction (ie, +3/10) just like an enhancement bonus would, but since none of the current NS4 items have damage reduction bonuses except for what is available through spells and scrolls, just damage resistence (ie, resist 10/-) and damage immunity (ie, 10% immunity bonus), you can replicate the effect of an enhancement bonus simply by adding +1 to +3 piercing damage bonuses to the arrows. Bioware already does this with its stock +1 to +5 arrows. AC isn't the stumbling block (no reduction items in the game), it's the resist & immunity AND a Bioware problem with damage types.
Evidently, due to some defect in the game mechanics, adding in damage bonuses like slashing or bludgeoning doesn't work as you expect it to. From what I understand, additional physical bonuses just get rolled into the overall damage type for a particular weapon (ie, so +2d6 bludgeon ends up getting eaten by pierce damage resistence or immunity as though it was +2d6 pierce), so it's problematic to do the same thing with ranged weapons vs armour as is currently done with melee vs armour. You can't just switch arrows and get the same effect as switching from longsword (slashing) to warhammer (bludgeoning) vs a resistent opponent. This makes it comparitively easy to deal with anyone using a bow - you just switch to as much pierce resist & immunity as possible.
An AA's Enchant Arrow does count towards to-hit, damage, and bypassing damage reduction. But again, since there are no reduction items in the game beyond spell effects, the damage gets soaked by both the damage resistence and % immunity.
The NS3 solution of adding the ranged weapon focus (which adds a considerable amount of non-soakable damage) would be a possible solution for non-AA archers, but I suspect it might be overkill if available to an AA build. A mobile AA with Called Shot & an opponent with no access to any sort of Freedom effect would be a really one-sided fight.
On-hit spell effects on the arrows might be an interesting alternative. Since the level of spell effect can be chosen, you can fine tune arrows to promote tactics instead of just plunking down a set damage bonus.
yeah...giving the arrows spells would be pretty sweet. I am still looking for disjunct arrows...(HELL YEAH!) but still, the forces archers into a support only stage instead of ever possibly being able to go it alone.
Man I just checked the toolset...WTF....They dont' allow weapon enhancements on bows? Jesus Bioware, get your shiz together. I would at least expect master crafted arrows or something...but oh no!
Man maybe this isn't the dev's fault, it looks like Biowares fault. The only way I can see this being fixed is by giving arrows more damage in order to pierce through armor enhancements and through resistences.
Man I just checked the toolset...WTF....They dont' allow weapon enhancements on bows? Jesus Bioware, get your shiz together. I would at least expect master crafted arrows or something...but oh no!
Man maybe this isn't the dev's fault, it looks like Biowares fault. The only way I can see this being fixed is by giving arrows more damage in order to pierce through armor enhancements and through resistences.
I've tried fire, i've tried faith, and i've tried force, all I have left is hope.
Don't meean to undercut your arg here, ATI, but did you ever read the books for LOTR. Gimli and Legolas come up basically even, so don't knock the badass dwarf. That's all I had to say. Oh yeah, Legolas is a dandy-fop who needed to get his rear stomped by some real fighters. Bow at close range indeed, humph. Ok, now I am done, promise.