RDD mages....

MasterYoda · Post by **MasterYoda** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 1:49 pm

I havent seen any on this server , and i was putting my 2 cents out there for others to see to see what others think.....

Im building a Sorc/pali/RDD 25/5/10 and i was wondering if anyone could give me some insight on y there are no good rdd/sord builds out there...

You would think the extra buff to cha, and the con and str buffs would help, ac and mind spells not affecting, and on top of it all there are freaking red wings out of the back of you .......

so far even in PvP (Thanks ::DD:: for helping me test

) in a 2vme battle i was able to barely make it out alive...

thanks fer the input ...

Elagneros · Post by **Elagneros** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 3:40 pm

A good sorc/pally/rdd build?

You take some cheddar, monterey jack, mozarella, and colby, grate them all up and melt them down in a big fondue pot. Lots of yummy cheesy goodness there.

MasterYoda · Post by **MasterYoda** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:09 pm

JesterOI · Post by **JesterOI** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 7:55 pm

Aside from being able to carry extra gear, 40 extra hp @ 40, and being immune to fire damage I don't see much advantage.
Taking those 10rdd levels instead of 10sorc in epic levels means you lose out on 3 bonus feats.
I guess it's really personal preference.

seriouslynow · Post by **seriouslynow** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 8:49 pm

The class synergy here just isn't any good. The improved DC's and extra feats you get by taking the extra 10 sorc levels outweighs all the RDD benefits. The bonus str, con, and int are nice but it's not like you're going to have enough hp and ab to add significant melee presence. Depending on what lvl you get the +2int you start getting an extra skill pt every lvl.
Now, if tenser's transformation or shapechange actually functioned so that they didn't cause a loss of all your item bonuses then you might have something.

JesterOI · Post by **JesterOI** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 9:00 pm

Very good point on that polymorph spell idea, with RDD those would definitely work a lot better.

MLoki · Post by **MLoki** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 2:16 am

Doesn't work that great. Disciple Red toys with the Polymorph to Dragon Shape every once in awhile but always with disastrous results. The RDD stat bonuses and even the monk bonuses either don't help enough or I am seriously lacking something else in that form. I do much better in my natural form although the Dragon Breath coming from an actuall dragon at least looks cool but that's about it.

MLoki

seriouslynow · Post by **seriouslynow** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 1:57 pm

The problem with Tenser's and Shapechange is that you polymorph and lose all bonuses from items. This means you lose extra spell slots made available to you from stat bonuses and have to redo your spell book after every shift in the case of a wizard. I think a lot of the stats for the polymorphed shapes are also pre-determined so it doesn't care what your base stat is anyways.
Ideally, this would be fixed by allowing a base stat to be used if it were higher and merging items. There is a nwvault fix for tenser's that I use for offline mods that works very well. It doesn't polymorph you but just gives you the stat and ab increases and 100% spell failure for the duration. So for the case of a caster you trade all your spell casting abilities for some improved melee. Depending on the build that may not be very desirable but at least it works and makes the game more fun. It would be really cool if the developers decided to implement the tenser's change, for shapechange I really haven't looked into what's there.

JesterOI · Post by **JesterOI** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 4:47 pm

Considering the generally linear progression of equipment it should not be that hard to predict what equipment a player will be using at a given level and compensating them sufficently.
As for having to redo spellslots after polymorph, just do a ability check when polymorphing and set INT or WIS to not change. CHA doesn't amtter because they don't use spellslots.

lordvan52681 · Post by **lordvan52681** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 6:17 pm

seriouslynow wrote:The problem with Tenser's and Shapechange is that you polymorph and lose all bonuses from items. This means you lose extra spell slots made available to you from stat bonuses and have to redo your spell book after every shift in the case of a wizard.

Just wanted to point out that this bug affects ALL shapechanges, including Shifters and Druids.

seriouslynow · Post by **seriouslynow** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 7:41 pm

lordvan52681 wrote:
seriouslynow wrote:The problem with Tenser's and Shapechange is that you polymorph and lose all bonuses from items. This means you lose extra spell slots made available to you from stat bonuses and have to redo your spell book after every shift in the case of a wizard.
Just wanted to point out that this bug affects ALL shapechanges, including Shifters and Druids.

Oh yeah, I forget 'cause I'm used to playing where item merging works for druid/shifters.

Spura · Post by **Spura** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 6:44 am

seriouslynow wrote: The improved DC's

Max DC for sorc 40 is 43 and max DC for sorc 30/rdd 10 is 44. The sole exception being mord dispell check isn't DC(and most of mage protections are in those 10 stripped anyway).

JesterOI · Post by **JesterOI** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:15 am

Max Spell DC is 45 for level 9 spells.
Any class can attain this, except for maybe the wizard.
A little further tweaking and that DC45 may go up 1 or 2 more, but it would rpobably require a lot of sacrificing.
I think the only class that can attain DC45 without too much sacrficing is the druid.

Spura · Post by **Spura** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 8:00 am

Wizard gets 45, sorc gets 43.

Sorc gets CHA:

18 base + 10 from levels +6 epic cha feats +12 from items and buffs(like +5 cloak and emp eagle splendor) = 46 CHA, mod is 18.

DC is 10 base + 6 epic spell focus + 9 spell level + 18 cha mod = 43

sorc 30/Rdd 10 gets CHA

18 base + 10 levels + 6 epic cha feats + 12 from items and buff +2 RDD = 48, mod is 19.

DC is 10 base + 6 epic focus feat + 9 spell level + 19 cha mod = 44

Wizard 40 gets INT:

18 base + 10 levels + 10 INT feats + 12 items and buffs = 50 INT, mod is 20

DC is 10 base + 6 epic focus feat + 9 spell level + 20 INT mod = 45

Wizard 29/sorc 1/RDD 10 gets INT(I think RDD gets +2 int, I am at work so I may be off):

18 base + 10 level + 10 int feats + 12 items and buffs + 2 INT from RDD = 52 INT, mod 21

max DC is 46.

JesterOI · Post by **JesterOI** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 8:57 am

40 Sorc DC:
Base: 10
Spell Level 9: 9
Base CHA 28: 9
Epic Feat CHA 10: 5
Bonus CHA 12: 6
Focus Feats: 6

10 + 9 + 9 + 5 + 6 + 6 = 45 DC

As for taking RDD to ge tthe CHA bonus, it's just shooting yourself in the foot almost. The 10 levels of RDD sap precious bonus feats. I got 52 CHA with SPLVL9 DC of 44. Was only enough feats to take 10 Great CHA only.
To do it again I would do Great CHA 8, Epic Focus X, Epic Spell Pen. Doing that would end up back at DC45, but you would get some nifty RDD abilities.
Did notice that the caster got 10 level 9 spells/da err... spells/REST... with 52 CHA