Relic cheese - it stinks!

-Hobo- · Post by **-Hobo-** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 2:03 pm

ok 1st off i havent been on much lately my other real world commitments have increased, so sorry for that

But i had to post because i really think the relic game needs some looking at.

I noticed that people are using characters from rival, sometimes enemy factions to take relics for the Shadow legion in particular.

2 examples are an LA char taking a relic then getting her mate from the SL to take the relic after she logs so it drops - I guess her SL friend kills her back to bind point for easy access next time. And also an MA character that does the same thing.

I also believe that i heard someone was working on making it so outcasts could take there old factions relic. This should be looked at carefully because if your still allowed to bind in LA for example as an outcast u can just park your toon in the temple get the LA relic drop it for your friend who kills you back to LA temple rdy for next time - the whole operation would take less than 5 minutes easy. ( this may never happen, or the binding wont be allowed i dont know)

But i just felt i must post because its kinda not right really and i dont believe its in the spirit of the game at all to do that - what can be done to fix it with out making a mound of work for zing and others?? i dont know the only thought i had is that if a DM or DEV see someone do that they perhaps flick the outcast switch on you? after 3 times maybe?? i dont know what are other ppls thoughts on this? i would really like to see what others think?

MLoki · Post by **MLoki** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 2:17 pm

As it stands right now you can't retrieve relics from your own craddle but if we allowed allied factions a bonus for relics in allied craddles we should also restrict allies from retrieving relics from allied craddles. This would at least dissallow parking a TC toon in NC which I have seen DD do. The rest is like he said.... the DD friendly toon runs down to a meeting place gets PKed to drop the relic and respawn back in NC for next time. Kinda takes the faction war out of context with actions like this. Just some looking into perhaps to keep the cheese at a minimum.

MLoki

JesterOI · Post by **JesterOI** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 5:23 pm

What I would like to see would be:

While carrying relic you get the following:
hide and move silent: -20
movement speed cannot exceed 150% base
relic weight = atleast 100lbs

alena · Post by **alena** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 10:30 pm

There seems to be some confusion here on relic raids & I certainly won't share my methods, but I do run & I don't get PKed (2 exceptions by Winterhawk & Ironclaw yesterday - was a good fight too). Looks to me like LA & SL have both figured out the system pretty well.

lordvan52681 · Post by **lordvan52681** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 10:36 pm

what do the last 2 posts have to do with the subject of this thread?

The subject is, I shouldnt use my NC characters to steal from TC then drop them off in the LA castle. It just isnt right.

If you wanna get a relic for a faction, then use characters from that faction, not from others and certainly not from a faction allied with the city youre raiding.

Death Dealer1 · Post by **Death Dealer1** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 11:13 pm

i like to steal relics and drop them in odd places...its fun to hunt a lvl 6 for carrying the relic

*edit* btw...i think i should be allowed to carry all 7 relics at once...just because i can and it would be cool.

Kromix · Post by **Kromix** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 11:23 pm

maybe have all the relics an incorporated penalty

Elagneros · Post by **Elagneros** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 12:36 am

JesterOI wrote:What I would like to see would be:

While carrying relic you get the following:
hide and move silent: -20
movement speed cannot exceed 150% base
relic weight = atleast 100lbs

Hide and Move silently I believe already get that penalty. As for 100 lbs, that is a bit excessive. The 50.5 lb weight for relics is fine the way it is, IMO.

Death Dealer1 wrote: i like to steal relics and drop them in odd places...its fun to hunt a lvl 6 for carrying the relic

Yeah, hide and seek with the relics was fun at first, but most of the serious relic players know the server well enough to find the hiding spots. It's only really effective if you can park it someplace tough like say the Amazon Temple.

More fun though are the games of "touch the cradle". We in LA have found great fun in running into the Temple of Lolth, touching the cradle and running out again, while watching SL log all their high levels to stop us. Great way to disrupt the XP bonus if we can't wrest the relics back from them by brute force.

But back to the subject at hand — I too am irked by faction treason regarding relics. I have been on the recieving end of people who have used a more or less inactive LA toon to aid the faction they now currently play in. I have also been on the recieving end of players who actively interfere with LA relic efforts with an LA toon because they were either trying to spite my guild, or simply because they could. As the faction with NO allies, treason is something that annoys me more than just about anything else on this server, and I really do not like LA based characters going against any relic efforts the rest of the faction is engaging in, because we work hard for our bonuses.

Some real outcast penalties are in order IMO, say something like losing the ability to bind to your faction's shards (and being able to bind only to Avendell and FD), and being unable to pick up relics at all and taking significant damage from picking up a relic or touching a cradle sounds about right to me. I think such a penalty should come into place if you attack any of your faction members while your relic is not in a cradle (though accidental targeting is an issue that needs to be considered).

Post by **Mr. O'Dearly** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 12:57 am

One of the servers I used to play on had a jail system implemented. If you pked someone you were put on a bounty list. Then other players could kill you for a reward and your character would be sent to jail for a period.

kgb · Post by **kgb** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 1:19 am

I agree with -Hobo- something has to be done about the relic system. I vote to scrap it all togehter!

I mean lets face it - it is broken. We have two factions SL and LA who play amongst themselves with AO a distant third.

Players log on and off depending on who has the most relic bonus. I have seen it so please dont tell me it doesnt happen!

I mean one night I saw 11 out of 15 players were SL when there was +50% relic bonus around.

What's the point. Either lets all be SL or LA or ditch the system. The simple solution would be to up the experience on all creatures so that it mimics the relic system and be done with it.

Players from NC, MA, RK, TC are missing out on this "pot of gold" and to avoid the absurd situation of players logging one character to get another so that they can level faster is I feel against the spirit of the server.

The server is losing the flavour of the its whole existence of faction wars because a battle between just 2 of the 7 factions is a poor excuse for one.

Either devs/dms come up with a brilliant new strategy to inject some variety in character creation or the server will become a bland place to play.

Elagneros · Post by **Elagneros** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 2:34 am

Not only do I say to impose the penalties I mentioned before, but also to add two NEW ones: strip the character in question of all items and gold AND reduce the character level 1. It may sound harsh, but it seems only the most draconian measures will discourge some players at this point.

I have just gotten off the game after spending the better part of an hour fighting a relic battle with kst and a character that was initially friendly to me. I do not know what faction the character was, since the hostility settings have been know to be bugged. But if it was an LA character, I am very angry. Now I don't mind faction vs. faction battles, but I am getting damn tired of people fighting within the same faction for pure metagame reasons. It has GOT to stop. If you don't like a faction, DON'T play it, and don't fight against it. Delete your characters if necessary, and start new ones in a more appropriate city.

Note my complaint is not about kst.

Otherwise, I see no reason for my guild to continue participating in the relic system. We don't NEED the XP bonus. I'm tired of us playing by the rules and being good citizens only to turn around and see us get burned because some immature players have a grudge with us or are sore losers or something.

Elagneros · Post by **Elagneros** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 2:36 am

Mr. O'Dearly wrote:One of the servers I used to play on had a jail system implemented. If you pked someone you were put on a bounty list. Then other players could kill you for a reward and your character would be sent to jail for a period.

The only problem with that is unless it is strictly against your own faction, it would interfere with the whole faction war concept here. There's also the whole "pk back to a safe area" trick that is widely used, but I don't know if that's considered an exploit or legit.

kingfatzo · Post by **kingfatzo** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 5:38 am

I agree with Elagneros on this one.. all the way...

The relic system has indeed gotten out of hand. I literally spent all night in a stalemate battle for control of the relics. Where is the problem you may ask ... no its not with any of LA's enemy factions, but it is as Elag said, people within MY OWN FACTION who sold out to the enemy. THere are times i enjoy a nice battle, BUT again when i have to deal with MULTIPLE people from MY OWN FACTION attacking me and aiding my factions enemy, it become ludicrious. I felt i wasted 2-3 hours of my gaming time this night on a worthless endeavor.... and where did it get me, or anyone else for that matter -- nowhere.... maybe the individuals who are outacsts of the LA felt good about themselves -- well ya know somthing has to float your boat...

Hypothetically speaking, if we wiped the entire relic system... OR minimized it somehow i think it would make for a more enjoyable gameplay for all factions ... who knows maybe RP'ing will come back. The time wasted on tonights relic events sould have been used to gaining XP. It seems in the time it takes to claim and defend the relics, you could have earned the xp + the bonus and then some.

As far as traitiors within factions, i feel an even harsher discipline is required.... If an individual repeatedly attacks their factions players and NPC's AND aids the enemy of that faction, their character should be DELETED.... granted the lvl 1 w/ no gear approach is probably more realistic

I must also add in here however that people who ACCIDENTIALLY attack their factions NPC's / players should NOT be penalized at all... there have been times i have hit my guards with area effect spells/ misfired a bigbys, etc.... these are obvious accidents and should not be punished providing it does not become a frequent event ..... abuse of this is OBVIOUS....

How about this ? Nix the relic system for a day or two --- see how the server runs... maybe we could have some organized competitions between factions... friendly competition... THe ones ive seen before i have enjoyed very much.

and i do have one gripe. Although I am fed up with the relic system right now and i really dont care, Why was a relic in Avendell for an extended period of time ??? the 5+ minutes whitnessed this evening was too long ; it doesnt take NEARLY that long to rest and buff -- taht and if you make it to avdenell chances are your home free

i have no ending to this ramble... please feel free to comment

JesterOI · Post by **JesterOI** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 5:41 am

Possessing all the relics is only part of the game. It's there to entertain the higher level players.
Imagine how much XP you could have gotten had you went out levelling while all the big pvp builds are fighting over relics.

A lot less people out killing stuff because they fighting over flags means better spawns and better xp with a smaller threat of being randomly pk'd for you while levelling.

I also feel that you wasted your time.

I can already tell you what it will be like without the relics. No bonus XP for ANYONE. Level 30's with nothing else better to do than run around looking for lowbies to harrass.

You wasted 2-3 hours of your time? For other people that was 2-3 hours of fun. It was 2-3 hours of lvl 30's being elsewhere besides poisoning lowbie levelling areas.

Stop complaining!

Post by **Mr. O'Dearly** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 5:48 am

The question you really got to ask yourself is, "Are you having fun?"
I dont see any problem with the relic system. If you dont want to spend time defending the relics then dont. Not having relics doesn't give you any penalties. I know, I play mostly in RK lol. The relic system is just another feature not a requirement. I occasionally go out and steal a relic, knowing full well that I could be making xp somewhere and that it will likely get stolen within an hour of me stealing it.