dragon knight summons

MasterYoda · Post by **MasterYoda** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 1:55 pm

And lets not forget Dragon KNight has already been nerfed.....

Supposed to be a dragon.....

Y nerf it even more... I have seen people tear my solar apart...

Mabey u need better builds

**Edit** Above comment was not aimed at anyone was a suggestion **end edit**

Death Dealer1 · Post by **Death Dealer1** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 4:41 pm

this was never a post of "lets nerf it so everyone can kill it" its a quandry of why can't the other 2 selections on Dragon knight be as mean as the solar....

lord_modred · Post by **lord_modred** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 6:03 pm

additionally, why is the palemasters second best summon so easily killed by a regular wizards summon?

PM's rely almost entirely on their summon, a wizard does not.

MasterYoda · Post by **MasterYoda** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 7:33 pm

i wasnt trying to turn this into a "please dont nerf my cheese" i was meerley bringing it to the attention to the people on this forum that Dragon Knight is Supposed to be way stronger ......

The other summons are even for what they are ....

A heave hitting balor from the pits of hell casting harm .... makes sense

A heavy beat stick salaad casting minimal spells but able to crit over 120.....seems fair

A celestial being casting despell and heals...... Seems ok ....

I would be more than willing to test my solar vs level 30 sd/bg/pm summons...... its just that noone has one of those builds to fight me with ....

Wheres deputy dog when u need him

lord_modred · Post by **lord_modred** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:29 pm

MasterYoda wrote:
I would be more than willing to test my solar vs level 30 sd/bg/pm summons...... its just that noone has one of those builds to fight me with ....

differance being, you get your solar at lvl, what, 25? where as a PM character has to be at least lvl 35(total) to get it's best summon.
and it takes a hell of alot longer to get to 35 than it does to get to 25(it only took me 2 weeks to get my wizard to lvl 25).

now as i said before, PM's DEPEND on their summons, the summons are essentially the entire purpose of the palemaster class, wizards do not depend on their summons due to the fact that they have overwhelmingly powerful spells. it doesnt make sense that a wizards summon is more powerful than a palemasters of the same level.

Post by **Mr. O'Dearly** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:40 pm

Actually, you cant get 30lvls pm until lvl 40. You cant take more than ten levels of a prestige class until you take a total of ten levels from other base classes. This also means that all of your levels after 20 must be pm, so no dumping tumble etc. with one lvl of monk/rogue at high lvls.

Death Dealer1 · Post by **Death Dealer1** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:30 pm

cross class skills are attainable and help out tremendously...and yoda, the lvl 30PM summon would tear your solar a new one...i've seen it. scary stuff.

lord_modred · Post by **lord_modred** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 12:07 am

Mr. O'Dearly wrote:Actually, you cant get 30lvls pm until lvl 40. You cant take more than ten levels of a prestige class until you take a total of ten levels from other base classes. This also means that all of your levels after 20 must be pm, so no dumping tumble etc. with one lvl of monk/rogue at high lvls.

this just serves to make my point all the more valid

additionally, this could easily be resolved if the other PM powers were made functional(read my post on undead grafts for that subject though)

Nemesis Revised · Post by **Nemesis Revised** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 1:45 am

the pm really is a toughie to level. quoting someone, he's like a walking monolith. hard to kill. but medium ab.

the thing is, the palemaster summons are hard to work for. i would suggest giving the PM new summons every 5 levels (past 10 pm) rather than 10 every level.

the players thus get them at levels 15, 20, 25, and finally 30. at least it makes pm leveling more progressive rather than having to wait 10 levels for a new summon.

or maybe make a special job for the PMs only. makes him more powerful if he worked for it. this opens up to giving jobs to faction-only prcs such as CoT, PM, assassin, shifter, RDD, and DwarvenDefender.

Death Dealer1 · Post by **Death Dealer1** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 9:45 am

yeah...my PM is sitting at 18PM lvls and its just oh so long to get down those amazons for 100 or so xp to get my 60k xp for 20PM lvls. he can scrap them like a pro, but thats only because i can outlast any of them.

JesterOI · Post by **JesterOI** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:24 am

I think it is a great idea to have the PM Summon power scale in smaller but more numerous increments.
I mean what's the point of playing something that doesn't get good till 40 when there is no where to go after 40...

Every 5 levels is even a bit long to wait.

I say atleast every 2 level something should improve on the summon.

Hell even make similar to the Mummy Dust spell but with some sort of perceivable advantage other than an extra 2 str...

Or make the PM summon some sort of caster based summon that can rival the mummy dust spell of the same level. However make it a goodthing to take mummy dust as well but keep mummy dust as a melee based summon.
That way depending on the situation, the PM has the advantage of summoning a good caster OR a good melee to suit the situation.

Another thing to consider maybe is allowing the PM to summon during combat and still get the bonus that other classes can only get while not in combat.

Death Dealer1 · Post by **Death Dealer1** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:33 am

yeah...the casting master lich is more awesome than a melee tank. as a PM you take more damage from casters than anything.

MLoki · Post by **MLoki** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 12:36 pm

Having a PM I know what a pain it is to get those last couple levels to get the 20th level PM summons and I was thouroughly dissapointed. especially knowing that it will never get better even while my mummy dust still slowly improves. It is very dissapointing not having the casting ability of other Sorc's while I sit back and watch my summons do most of the work. Don't get me wrong the PM summons is a great melee tank but so is the Mummy Dust summons. If the Master Lich could make up for some of the spell casting ability lost by taking PM it might make it more worthwile. Especially after dedicating so much power into the summons it is rather dissapointing to have my summons get beat up by a Solar and knowing that the Mage controlling it has far more spell power to back it up as well.

MLoki

JesterOI · Post by **JesterOI** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 12:51 pm

Why would you make a PM using sorc levels?
Honestly PM is better made using a Wizard. It also fits in better with the story of a PM the hardwork, study, discipline, and such (read the wizard class description in game along with the sorc description, then read the PM description you will definitely notice that a Wiz/PM fits better.). As long as you have a supply of scrolls somewhere you can learn all your spells all the way up to 9th level. Something that you can't do with a sorc. (Yet another reason why Wiz is superior to sorc)
Only thing is that spell durations and other spell functions that rely on caster lvl are capped at 10 or whatever level you stopped taking Wiz at.

Maybe the devs could change this to allow spell durations and other spell functions to include PM levels. Durations atleast would make it more bearable.

Also bumping Necro spell DC's by 2 for every 10 levels of PM could be a fitting idea as well.

Post by **Lokey** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 2:34 pm

JesterOI wrote:Maybe the devs could change this to allow spell durations and other spell functions to include PM levels. Durations atleast would make it more bearable.

I think I have a somewhat easy to drop in solution...but for the same effort we could drop PM altogether and do a lich conversion type thing plus other cool stuff. Just saying...working around the hardcode and cheats is the most annoying thing about building in NWN.

Also bumping Necro spell DC's by 2 for every 10 levels of PM could be a fitting idea as well.

I don't think DCs are the problem, it's SR checks and other caster level related stuff (which we can hopefully just slide some slick code in to change all behavior in one fell swoop).

Good points wiz...though swapping spells around is tedious even if you mostly throw them from the radial menu (something NWN2 will hopefully do better--easier to manage controls and especially spell lists).