Bigby Proposal

[alena]

It is called 'Ideas & Suggestions'. While I don't agree with all, it does seem like there are some good ideas.

It also seems like there is more of a concern with it PVP. I was thinking leveling issues.

Sunny

[Sightbringer]

I suppose i shoulda put this here in the first place. I didnt get much feedback on the post i put it in, so for those who didnt see it, here's my proposal for a new balanced bigby setup.

All you need to do to bigbys is make the saves apparent and sensible to be balanced with NS4 stats. Have a fort save to negate the spell, a discipline check (none of this vague 'grapple' check crap) to avoid the knockdown effect, and a reflex save to avoid damage from those that do damage.

Please don't make this a fort save... for god's sake EVERY good offensive spell a wizard has (other than IGMS) has a fort save. Make it will or reflex. I like will because 1) not many good spells use will and 2) if you have a strong will power, you could overcome the grip of the hand since you were so strong-souled.

[Sightbringer]

Unbelievable! I just can not believe that we gotten to the point of nerfing more mage spells. Wow! Kudos , to all the ranters. Well done.

What's next? Nerfing dc checks too? When does it stop? I know this is technically a rant too, but I had to throw my hat in the ring.

I hope during testing someone tries it out in amazons or the planer areas. It sure is hard to get a kill in the latter. If there are two, forget it, as someone has to tank for you. Currently it is my best weapon for a tank other than the mob chasing me around while he solos one.

I ceartainly am not the best wiz builder so I might be missing something.

Sunny

Sunny, you're completely correct in your estimation that wizards and other casters SUCK in the planar areas because everything has 1000's of hitpoints. Even with my cleric/monk/rogue it takes forever to kill anything despite the fact that most of the common creatures in the planes are not horribly difficult.

I get a strange feeling that NS is slowly creeping into Diablo II...

[MasterYoda]

Yeah plains are totaly anti caster since casters can't realy dish out 1000 damage to multiple targets without lots of rest.

Wands and scrolls stil can only go so far

[JesterOI]

Casters are relegated to support buffers pretty much.

[Elagneros]

Please don't make this a fort save... for god's sake EVERY good offensive spell a wizard has (other than IGMS) has a fort save. Make it will or reflex. I like will because 1) not many good spells use will and 2) if you have a strong will power, you could overcome the grip of the hand since you were so strong-souled.

Translation:

Fighters have big Fort saves. Fighters have tiny Will saves. This will keep the anti-fighter "I win" spell just the way it its, and continue the current status quo of tweaked out clerics as the only tanks worth having.

I dunno, I'm of two minds on this whole issue. On one hand, Bigby is one of the few things a mage has going for him around here. OTOH, getting Bigbied sucks because it's damn near unavoidable unless you have a huge pile of Mantle potions stockpiled (or you have very good UMD and have scrolls.). But really, the worst tanks we tend to see in PvP are the heavy clerics, and if they have a high enough SR either from spells or race bonuses, bigby does nothing against them, and a cleric has the upper hand with both Fort and Will.

[MasterYoda]

Please don't make this a fort save... for god's sake EVERY good offensive spell a wizard has (other than IGMS) has a fort save. Make it will or reflex. I like will because 1) not many good spells use will and 2) if you have a strong will power, you could overcome the grip of the hand since you were so strong-souled.

Translation:

Fighters have big Fort saves. Fighters have tiny Will saves. This will keep the anti-fighter "I win" spell just the way it its, and continue the current status quo of tweaked out clerics as the only tanks worth having.

well thewre is your answer make it a will save cause if ander doesnt like it then it must be good


just razzing you ander. anyways make it a reflex to dodge it, then a will save for the belief that it isnt really there.

[Elagneros]

well thewre is your answer make it a will save cause if ander doesnt like it then it must be good

Who said I didn't like it? I'm working on a cleric tank as well, don't want to see all the effort go down the drain...

[MasterYoda]

well thewre is your answer make it a will save cause if ander doesnt like it then it must be good

Who said I didn't like it? I'm working on a cleric tank as well, don't want to see all the effort go down the drain...

u forgot the part where i said i "was just razzing with you" LOL

[P. Fricebottle]

I've been saying make it a reflex save the whole time! It makes sense, I mean the hand is materialistic. Its grabbing you, rushing towards you, beating you into the ground like a hammer and a railroad spike. So why can't you DODGE it? Why not be able to avoid the hand, that would work. See, strength fighters would still get hit with the spell but they got strength to break it. If it was a will save, we'd all be screwed. The reflex save makes it possible for all the dex-builders to get free of the spell. Other classes that are will like monk got SR to get em out. In the past, If my rogue gets hit by a bigsby then he never gets up (no I don't do the SD cheese-way-out of it).

[JesterOI]

I would love to see the devs re-enable mass charm.

[Core]

Just let us know what it's based on in the end will ya? It's pretty decent the way it works currently, just want to know what rolls I'm making.

[JesterOI]

That's probably the biggest issue, no one knows exactly what formula NS uses for bigbies.

[kingfatzo]

argh. i give up too much to read

[minielvis]

In respect of trying to keep the gameplay more realistc, I suggest this:
If and when the line of Bigsby's is modified, that we not be informed of anything regarding how to save from them. This way, only through careful study and practice, people will have to learn how to defend from them. Through trial and error. Those who do not have the means to ferret out this information, will be forced to ally themselves to those that do. More realistic, see? &)