Suggestion for improving weapon progression

JesterOI · Post by **JesterOI** » Tue May 11, 2004 2:42 pm

I'd rather see physical resistances removed from monsters than immunities, and definitely the removal of one or the other if they have both.
VS damage immunities you are always going to be able to do damage unless they have 100%.
Resistances take off an exact amount everytime you hit.
If one or the other is used on a monster that's fine, but both makes it harsh.

Thanos · Post by **Thanos** » Tue May 11, 2004 4:21 pm

I think there is some problems with what you guys ask for. If you make weapons that much better you still have the problem of psuedo fighters benefitting from the new damage and fighters haven't really gained any ground on those classes. Lets look at a 19 cleric / 1 fighter. Your still going to have the problem that the cleric is a better tank with all his offensive and defensive buffs. You just made him stronger cause he is using your new buffed up weapons.

I think a better solution is.

1. leave the monsters alone.
2. The developers make class specific equipment by level. Make 16th level fighter equipment not level 16 equipment. Make it so 19 cleric/ 1 fighter can't use the vorpal weapon or the 19 sorc/1 pally can't use the holy advenger.

TastyTreat · Post by **TastyTreat** » Wed May 12, 2004 8:56 am

I do agree that class specific gear would be good, especially when conerning the higher level weaps with powerful special abilities (such as vorpal).

As far as the specific classes are concerned people forget that fighters get a crazy amount of feats, 1 of only 2 classes that get this benifit. Also fighters get weapon specialization which is ONLY available to fighters. All classes have their own benefits that make them useful. Yes clerics have many advantages over pure fighters, but has anyone thought about why many cleric builds have fighter type classes in them? I think what many people fail to realize is that the sucess of your character is based on how you build it. Pure class builds overall won't be as good as multi-class builds that have been thought out thoroughly. This is not nessesarily a bad thing, it's simply how NWN was designed (look at all the builds on the bioware website make by bioware themselves). Although, the introduction of pure class specific items will definetly be very interesting. These items, if done right, could even make pure classes useful!

Items are not the most important part of your character (this isn't Diablo II). They DO make a significant difference tho, both items and character builds work together to make a complete character. I still think that weapons (at least the ones I've seen so far) could use a slight strengthening. But all the other things I mentioned above should also be considered before saying that fighter types suck because weapons are too weak.

Kelin · Post by **Kelin** » Wed May 12, 2004 9:53 am

TastyTreat wrote:I do agree that class specific gear would be good, especially when conerning the higher level weaps with powerful special abilities (such as vorpal).

As far as the specific classes are concerned people forget that fighters get a crazy amount of feats, 1 of only 2 classes that get this benifit. Also fighters get weapon specialization which is ONLY available to fighters. All classes have their own benefits that make them useful. Yes clerics have many advantages over pure fighters, but has anyone thought about why many cleric builds have fighter type classes in them? I think what many people fail to realize is that the sucess of your character is based on how you build it. Pure class builds overall won't be as good as multi-class builds that have been thought out thoroughly. This is not nessesarily a bad thing, it's simply how NWN was designed (look at all the builds on the bioware website make by bioware themselves). Although, the introduction of pure class specific items will definetly be very interesting. These items, if done right, could even make pure classes useful!

Items are not the most important part of your character (this isn't Diablo II). They DO make a significant difference tho, both items and character builds work together to make a complete character. I still think that weapons (at least the ones I've seen so far) could use a slight strengthening. But all the other things I mentioned above should also be considered before saying that fighter types suck because weapons are too weak.

First, a fighter NEEDS gear. A fighter is BASED upon feats AND gear. You can have ALL the feats of this world, but you can't take out a dragon's heart with a spoon.
And the fighter only feat "weapon specialization" can add max +6 damage to a weapon at epic level. That is nice, is true. Wile a cleric can buff himself to get like +30 damage and more. But the fighter can get Epic Weapon Specialization Spoon and he must be happy.
Anyway, damage immunity is what screws a fighter. A lvl 16 armor or shield has 10/ resistance on. And 25% immunity. So if you have armor AND shield with for example immunity to slash you have 50% immunity and 10/ resistance. This mean that you can't be damaged by slash weapon. And if you have all 3 shield, you can easily switch them and still have 25% immunity and 10/ resistance. And this, seen the strenght of the weapons around, is simply INSANE.
Damage immunity MUST be removed. NS4 is supposed to be a low magic mod. Damage immunity isn't founded easily even on the highest magic mod, still here is on lvl 1 items.
If you do a low magic world, like most of the RP servers are, you should put something to limit casters. Like a rest timer.
Still, NS4 wants to be a world were fighters go around with spoons and caster can rest freely every 2 seconds.
Then WHY you should play every other class beside a cleric, wizard, or sorceror? You want a tank? Do a cleric, they have more ab, more attacks, more ac, more hps, damage spells, death spells, summons, and can use the same gear of any fighter. And they can rest every 20 seconds. So why play a fighter?
And when there will be only Cleric based chars running around NS4, except for wizard and sorcerors, maybe you will wonder why. Of course, they will be an endless variation of Cleric builds. But still all cleric based. Why? Who knows.....

ATI · Post by **ATI** » Wed May 12, 2004 2:02 pm

Class specific gear is the only solution and i've been asking for it to be seriously looked at. The main reason is that class specific gear limits the problem of 19 cleric 1 fighter builds. Also having class specific gear for fighters that do more than average damage (boss dropped awesome lvl 13 weapons) would put a lot of incentive for fighters to be played. Also, having better armor and equip that is for mid to high lvl fighters (with mid to high lvl fighter restrictions) would help fighters be good.

These ideas seem too good not to be implemented.

Kelin · Post by **Kelin** » Thu May 13, 2004 8:46 am

I agree with class/level restricted items, fighters to have some possibility to be at same level of a cleric with 1 level of fighter need better gear...
Like, dunno, would be funny something like "Flametongue", +5 lvl 20 sword with +2d12 slash keen massive crit +2d12 that casts lvl 20 darkfire or flame weapon 1/day usable only by lvl 20 fighters

JesterOI · Post by **JesterOI** » Thu May 13, 2004 11:21 am

What about a Thunder Sword of Zeus?

Of course this particular weapon for NS would be something like Level 40 required

(bah, spelled Zeus wrong...)

ATI · Post by **ATI** » Thu May 13, 2004 1:53 pm

that would be a sad lvl 40 sword...but I got where you're going

and make a dev created script that made it so that it could only be used by a fighter lvl 20 rather than be used by a mage with one lvl in fighter

TastyTreat · Post by **TastyTreat** » Fri May 14, 2004 12:43 am

A custom class restricted script is definetly a good idea and I'm pretty sure that the devs are already planning on such a thing since they have mentioned pure class items before.

Kelin · Post by **Kelin** » Fri May 14, 2004 9:36 am

I want the Jewel of Flame! A stone that casts Darkfire lvl 20 once/day! sgrunt!