2-handed/double-ended weapons proposal

[CrazyJ]

Re: Dual-wielding

Guardian Dagger
Level 9
AC +1

13
AC+1, enhancement +1

Level 16
Enhancement +1
AC +2

And reduced bonus damage compared to a standard weapon.

Trades off damaging attacks for defense. That's how I'd use a second weapon in a combat.... mostly for defense, attacking only occasionally.

[JesterOI]

AC on weapons is of the non-stacking deflection type.
Can already get +5 deflection ac from gloves and tons of helms have +3...

[lordvan52681]

I agree with Flailer. A dual wielder has the choice to use their weapon AND a shield if they need, whereas some one who uses a greatsword or dire mace has to choose between their chosen weapon OR a shield.

Dual wielders are fine.

[Kromix]

maybe add some lower shield modifier to the 2 ended weapons?

[Metis]

maybe add some lower shield modifier to the 2 ended weapons?

hmm

Double-ended weapons :

In a similar manner to 2-handed weapons, giving up not just AC but damage immunities and resistances by not having a shield makes using a double-ended weapon fairly pointless. So, we're propsing adding some defensive abilities to double-ended weapons (thought of as using the center of the weapon to block incoming attacks).

Examples of possible changes:

Defensive boosts:
Level 13: 5% damage imm, [shields at 20% imm, 10 resist]
Level 16: 10% damage imm, [shields at 25% imm, 10 resist]
Level 21: 10% damage imm, 5 resist [shields at 25% imm, 15 resist]
Level 25: 10% damage imm, 10 resist [shields at 25% imm, 15 resist]

[lord_modred]

one thing that might make 2handers better is doubling the massive criticals for 2handers, just a thought

[lordvan52681]

My God man! does noone read the post prior to theirs?!?!

Flailer already suggested that on the first post in this thread.

[PeregrineV]

My God man! does noone read the post prior to theirs?!?!

Flailer already suggested that on the first post in this thread.

It seems that speed reading course was so *NOT* worth the money.

Am I confused (in context of the rest of the question ) or doesn't the parry skill exist to provide an AC bonus at the expense of an attack (except when allowed a counterattack)?

[seriouslynow]

I'm excited to log on and see how this all works out. Based on flailer's description this sounds awesome! This is just enough reason to want to use the 2-handed weapons but still cause a real quandry about which way to go (i.e. shield + weapon or 2-handed or double weapon). This is the sort of dilema that actually gets a variety of weapons being used and makes things more interesting IMO.

For the dual wield folks, which most of are dex builds don't forget that they also have the option of wielding a ranged weapon effectively too.

So one concern, do the NPC's get the new bonuses too

[Binkyuk]

Am I confused (in context of the rest of the question ) or doesn't the parry skill exist to provide an AC bonus at the expense of an attack (except when allowed a counterattack)?

yes, ideally parry would be the answer for dual/double wielders who want to fight defensively, but it's hopelessly broken in nwn if your opponent has >3 attacks per round (which even my wizard does).

if we could somehow integrate the parry skill into the system that'd be nice, but i suspect it's much more effort than it's worth.

with regard to dual wielders I don't suppose it's possible to make a weapon offhand use only? i couldn't find it as a property in the toolset.

comments about these bonuses shafting halflings and gnomes that choose to 2 hand a medium weapon are entirely correct, but i can see no way around this. the only thing i can think of is race restricted medium weapons, but that would be scuppered by the UMD skill.

double weapons and dual wielding are a world apart IMO. you need 15 dex and an extra feat to use a double weapon effectively (or be a ranger), and yet they're not finessable so you still need to invest in strength for ab. the cost is far higher.

[JesterOI]

One thing to remember with the doubleended weapons is that they aren't finessable, are they?

Also with parry, if your parry skill is high enough, it basically let's you avoid the first and most powerful attack every round.
Parry would probably be most useful against an enemy that is impervious to physical attack but susceptible to spells. Of course there isn't anything like that in NS, the only way mobs are made strong vs melee in NS is by massive hp and mob AB's that are too high.

[Binkyuk]

Also with parry, if your parry skill is high enough, it basically let's you avoid the first and most powerful attack every round.
Parry would probably be most useful against an enemy that is impervious to physical attack but susceptible to spells. Of course there isn't anything like that in NS, the only way mobs are made strong vs melee in NS is by massive hp and mob AB's that are too high.

ok, i hate to get a bit off topic, but are you and peregrine talking about the same parry as me or is it changed for NS? the way i thought it works you enter parry mode and give up all of your attacks, and make an opposed roll against the attack roll of each attack in the round, and if you beat it you parry, and if beat it by 10 you counterattack.
very little to do with evading the first attack or an increase in AC.

[JesterOI]

There's only one parry combat mode with it's associated skill...
Sure parry doesn't attempt to block the second and/or consecutive attacks in a volley, but the first attack is always the strongest and that's the one that parry blocks. So it does have some use in certain situations. However, there really aren't any useful situations in the mod for parry.
Ultimately parry is pointless if your AC exceeds your parry skill.

[MasterYoda]

Back on topic......

What about halflings and gnomes....

I am currently making a halfling barb/bard/rdd....

Is there any way to script something that makes a special bonous to u no matter what weapon ur useing but it gives u special bonouses since your duel wielding....

IE

Special token : self use

+x to str
+x to con
+x to ac....

Mabey concealment, or Stoneskin , something to help them defensivly (im not saying put all these n one token but mabey a few)


or something alont this nature...

And mabey make a npc in town that lets u give up the shield feat to be able to get this token, or item...

It would help make people commit to duel wielding, and would probbally help fighters against mage types and casters a bit....

Also to make it so mages and such cant get it make it only available to people with a certain AB that way it limits mages from getting it ... u have to get it before level 5 or 6 and have to have AB 4 at least to get it.....

Mabey make a quest out of it....


I dont think halflings and gnomes sould be exempt from the duel wielding bonouses just cause they cant wield a great sword or a great axe.....

[Flailer]

We have some ideas on dealing with halflings and gnomes, but they won't be implemented at the same time as the altered two-handed/double ended weapons.