Monks (and other classes) In MA (and other factions).

Talk about Neversummer 4 with your fellow players.
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Mr. O'Dearly
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Post by Mr. O'Dearly »

This is what I rolled up with virtually no planning in advance about what I was gonna do.

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I assumed the use of an earth gen, cause hey, they rock.
Also one +2 int book was used, primarily as a check to see what lvl spells could be cast.

The only buff up is epic mage armor.

She can cast up to 7th lvl spells, Epic mage armor, greater ruin, and hellball. You could of course substitute any of the other epic spells in their place.

She has maxed tumble, discipline, listen, concentration, and spellcraft. I had a bunch of extra skill points I didn't know what to do with so I went ahead and crossclassed 21 into tant and 21 into open lock. The six spare went to lore... just because.

Her school is divination, primarily so she can cast true strike one more time per day. (for those of you who dont know, true strike gives +20 to attack rolls for one round)

She has Improved disarm, epic skill focus tumble and discipline, blind fight, all the yummy monk stuff, and epic energy resist cold.

She also gets one metamagic feat. I chose quicken spell to see if I could get auto quicken 1-3, I then forgot and took hellball and ruin instead. So, those could be replaced for auto quicken 1-6.

Keep in mind this is naked.

If I were to manage to get a +12 to str from items and buffs etc, wear +7 gloves ab would go up to 50, which frankly isn't bad when you've got 5 attacks a round and rolling d20s. You could of course use true strike for a temporary 70 ab.

We must not forget that she is also an earth gen so she'll get a little extra boost to ac and pretty huge DR.

If you happen to have a +4 int book on hand you could decrease your start Int from 16 to 14 and then pump 2 extra points into both wisdom and dex for another 2 to your ac.

lets not forget that you will have easy access to concealment from both spells and monkness.

All the other fancy abilities both monks and pms get are just icing on the cake.

*cough*crit immune*cough*

Now ask again why we don't have monks in MA.

My answer would be that they don't fit in RP wise. Sure you can have evil monks but MA is about backstabbing. Monks don't cheat.

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Post by disastro »

lots of the ac from epic mage armor wont stack with items iirc. so it ends up being about +8/+10 net ac depending on your equipment.

evil monks are supposed to be assassins or i'd imagine enforcers for organized crime. in ma they'd have to be dark moon (which in pen & paper is an evil monk order that is allowed to multiclass with wizard without losing their ability to progress in monk).

nothing especially uber about this build... there's already pms running around with all those epic spells AND time stop AND 82 ac. they're busy fighting the unhittable monk builds of LA on reflections.

i just wish there was one speed-enhanced class in MA to help counter the ultra fast zip-stealrelic-return monks. barb would work too.

watchwood
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Post by watchwood »

What? Have your arcane casters suddenly run out of haste spells?
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Mr. O'Dearly
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Post by Mr. O'Dearly »

starting from 53...

+4 from earth gen token.
+2 from said redistribution of ability points from int to dex and wis.
+6 from +12 dex buff
+6 from +12 wis buff
+2 from +4 dex book
+2 from +4 wis book
+1 from haste! :P

and now you're at 76.
I'm pretty sure that's much higher than most builds out there.
Yeah it doesn't hit the 30 lvl pm 80+, but imagine, this build can actually hit stuff!... and sorta hard!... and with decent consistency!

Yes, it uses multiple books but that is an advantage, not a disadvantage. The more useful abilities available to improve the better your build can get.

The +12 buffs aren't hard to get. If you've got a crafter wizard you can get MA staves for greater stat boosts.

Also keep in mind that this character gets even better in parties! If you're a cleric or Bard, you can only gain so much from a party, namely, a bunch of meatbags that you can turn into meatbags that hit hard.
With this build you can benefit from both Bard and Cleric buffs

I don't claim that this is a perfect build or that is better than any other build, but it IS certainly on the rather powerful/overpowered side. I only just rolled this up off the top of my head and it could probably be made better. I took a few feats that were rather questionable in their actual value for the build.

On the rp side, just because monks can become wizards and assasins does not make them MA material.

MA is largely on the chaotic side. Monks are largely on the lawful side. ;)

evil != chaos

An evil monk would have no problem with assassinations. Assassinations do not necessarily mean you use trickery or deception. It just means you kill the target. A monk living in Garagoth would be surrounded by chaotic evil thugs. He'd likely move to Shadow Leigon. Plenty of order there.

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Post by LinuxPup »

Any build that relies on true strike to hit is very crippled... even *if* you're hitting planar creatures 5 times a round, it takes a while to kill them... you'll have to spend all your true strikes on 1 monster.

Plus, if I recall true strike is nerfed and lasts a shorter period (in NS4) than its NWN implementation.... like 1 round (non-extendable) or 2 seconds or something like that.

And, true strike would only give +13, not +20 if you're using +7 gloves. So your ab would be nice for a *very* short period of time... You'd be spending almost as much time casting true strike as you would be attacking.

A monk/PM would be hard to kill for sure, just like a fighter/pm... but your SR is gonna suck unless you're an ECL 3 race, your taunt is useless. Quivering Palm and Stunning Fist are almost worthless.

If you think its hard to level up a 30pm, this is even worse.... I'm not against monks joining MA... I think it'd be pretty cool... but I'd never do a monk/pm... they're just plain bad.

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Post by Mr. O'Dearly »

it doesn't rely on true strike...

true strike is just one of those handy things for when you want to disarm or kd.

Last I checked true strike stacks with EVERYTHING and lasts 9 seconds, (a round and half. the remainder of the round you cast it, and the next round)

The SR is just a plus, you dont actually need it.

The maxed tumble and discipline and large ac make bigbies fall off you.

KD the mage, (heres where you use true strike! :wink: ), and there he goes!

Yes the mage still has Time stop but that hurts everyone. At least with this build you've got speed to make the time you have count.

but....

I'm done arguing.
This topic has been done before.
Monks in MA isn't gonna happen.

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CrazyJ
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Post by CrazyJ »

Forget true strike... Tenser's is teh pwn

LinuxPup
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Post by LinuxPup »

True Strike applies towards the +20 attack bonus cap... So if you have a +5 weapon, TS will give +15.

I remember trying TS pre-wipe and it was almost worthless, but dunno if thats changed... as for tenser's I have no idea, but I bet if it increases ab, it applies to the +20 ab cap too.

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Post by disastro »

Mr. O'Dearly wrote: I'm done arguing.
This topic has been done before.
Monks in MA isn't gonna happen.
heh, no argument here. just wasting time on idle speculation, posting from work and now waiting for reflections to reboot lol.

i'm not saying a monk/pm has no possibilities, sure it does. I'm just saying those possibilities aren't really special compared to what's already possible.

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Post by Carnaugh »

I apologize about my criticisms of the Wiki's inaccuracies. I didn't know it was player run and for the players to update (I have added a few comments to discussion pages where I have noticed inaccuracies).

I think a Monk in MA does fit RP-wise. And isn't Shadow Legion the Backstabbers?! I don't think of MA as backstabbers myself.

I don't see Monk/PMs as being more powerful then other builds really. They would just be super hard to kill, but don't really have alot of damage out put. Interestingly enough I wasn't even planning on making a Monk/PM, I just like the MA faction mostly cause its empty!

Someone said the class restrictions allow movement among players, well I agree and disagree with this. It does, amongst players like myself who will pick their faction based on what build they feel like making. But alot of people play in Guilds and hence are already staying in 1 faction because thats their guild's faction. I do like some of the restrictions and in some ways wish there was a greater analysis of the classes/spells/factions/etc to come to a greater balance.

And yes it would be nice to have some sort of resource to have access to, to update the Wiki properly.

How about the whole NS4 pallette!

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Post by Blystos Re »

...but it IS certainly on the rather powerful/overpowered side.
Thanks, O'Dearly, you hit the nail on the head.

There are some builds that just aren't attainable in NS4. I'd LOVE to have a Paladin/AA or a Monk/AA... but I don't have access to Sorcerers in NC. Until I do (which will happen, oh, about the same time MA gets Monks...) I have to make do with what I've got.
Last edited by Blystos Re on Thu Jan 18, 2007 11:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
frogofpeace wrote:And we like to think of the FoN guildhall as cozy - perfect for cuddling up in our snuggies with a hot toddy after a long day of smiting.

watchwood
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Post by watchwood »

You can make AA's using a bard level.
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Blystos Re
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Post by Blystos Re »

...which is what I've got. However, due to alignment restrictions they can never be mixed with Monks or Paladins.
frogofpeace wrote:And we like to think of the FoN guildhall as cozy - perfect for cuddling up in our snuggies with a hot toddy after a long day of smiting.

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Post by watchwood »

Oh. Right.
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Post by JesterOI »

Haven't read through all the posts but...

Allowing monks into MA shouldn't be that big of a problem.

Just update those fancy levelling scripts and such to not allow monk or PM if the other is already present...
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