Caster druid

[Daltian]

While I can't deny dragonshape druids to be formidable foes and elemental shape druids can find some use I think that it is impossible to build a good caster druid with current set of rules, druid spells and restrictions.

In my opinion the biggest weakness of druid caster is lack of mobility. No access o any kind of haste/expeditious retreat kind of spell makes it inferior to all other casters. Even if it had spells that are useful (which it mostly doesn't) it wouldn't be practical to use it without mobility.

If you think I am not right about caster druids could you please give me example of the druid caster build that would be viable in pvp or share how you got killed by a caster druid/killed someone with it. Actually, was anyone killed by caster druid in high level pvp during the last year?

While I think that druid should be given some sort of expeditious retreat spell/ability it definitely shouldn't be transferable to dragonshape. I don't know if it's possible but could one of druid spells be given movement speed bonus? One that checks for shapechange feat and is not applied if one has it.

Or maybe change one of wildshape abilities totally and make it just speed bonus ability and no actual polymorph, sort of like barbarian rage but just for speed? It would also fix the druid bonus spell slots being lost when you travel and thus totally useless.

I don't see downsides to this change since even if druid caster is hasted it is still inferior caster to cleric and wiz/sorc because if you think about it, what can druid do that cleric can't do better?

[mining]

We gave you extra spells, because that's an area where druid sucks horrendously - if people actually used druid casters it'd be more clear what needs changing, heh.

[Lokey]

Random assortment of thoughts:

I killed players with mine (water gen, awful feat selection, don't ask) until Tep killed me.

Dragon-shape exists, it's one feat you're stupid not to take. Also oh god why does cler get all those extra spell castings and extra feats?

Default spell selection. Some good druid spells given to other classes. What makes them great in PnP doesn't happen here (certain spells, the millions of ways to use those and other spells and wildshape to conquer the world). In 3.5, you can't wreck a city with any spellbook faster than druid.

Dip healing cler because they won't let me change that cheese, maybe if you abuse it enough.

Nothing levels to 30odd at no risk almost anywhere faster.

Yes, we have this conversation every few weeks.

[Daltian]

We gave you extra spells, because that's an area where druid sucks horrendously - if people actually used druid casters it'd be more clear what needs changing, heh.

As soon as you shift to panther you loose all those extra spells.
Also, if you have monk levels which druid and cleric casters often have panther looses speed so it becomes even worse.
When you see how cleric, fellow divine caster manages to be great at so many things, from healer to melee powerhouse, from DC caster to summoner, fron hipser to disabler.
It makes you sad to see druid worthwhile only as dragon. Makes it awfully onedimensional.

[Daltian]

Dragon-shape exists, it's one feat you're stupid not to take.

Caster druid needs to be multiclassed which means you can't take dragonshape.

If you stay pure you don't have enough discipline and no speed increasing ability which means someone will run to you and KD you after which you are dead.

So the only way to avoid that is that you go dragonshape as soon as you see an enemy which means you can't cast any spells. Which makes you melee class, not a caster.

And I am sorry if I brought up a topic that is recurring, but I was away for a year or so and this seamed like a big issue to me.

[mining]

It's so hard to balance something that nobody has, if you get my drift. I ran a druid, did OK in a few duels except for the fact I was wis based and had less spells than a tank build cleric :X

[Daltian]

It's so hard to balance something that nobody has, if you get my drift. I ran a druid, did OK in a few duels except for the fact I was wis based and had less spells than a tank build cleric :X

I know what you mean. But everybody has something that druid doesn't (at least every caster class), and that's movement increasing spell.
In times of old vinemine the reason behind druid not having haste was that druid doesn't haste it self but he slows others. Right now druid does neither of those things.
Reason behind this post isn't to strengthen druid spells but to give druid much needed mobility. Once druid has mobility more people will start using it and you can balance it around that.

[Bargeld]

What about that druid caster with inferno spell with duration into next week. That kills almost everyone because it has such specific defenses against it which no one has prepared.

[Acesen414]

You mean this one ? Inferno Duration: 1 Round/ 2 Levels (Capped at 15 rounds)

I've been wanted to test caster druids for awhile so... I'll roll a few up.

**Thread Highjack**
Pure paladins suffer from lack of movement speed as well they where supposed to get a mounts Which as we all know is not going to happen.

[Nyeleni]

Unfortunately it's a lvl 5 spell like ice storm. The only two really good spells to deal damage for druids.

[Korr]

Druid has as many no SR spells as sorc/wizard does. They are even on par with no save spells.

They have a spell that lowers SR (requires an SR check... ::facepalm:: (also a save))

While not the best Quillfire (3rd level) is a no SR no save(vs damage) 30 magic damage spell. Not the same damage at level 1 magic missile. But missile can be shielded and resisted

Vine Mine has no SR check and no Save to slow up to 10 people...

Creeping Doom is still an awesome spell (better when it could be stacked (cant anymore right?)) but you just gotta make sure you slow them down when going through it. No save and no SR!

Inferno as stated before... has no save (yes SR).

Drown is an awesome spell if you can bump the DC to a decent amount. 90% health gone...!
Healing Sting even if resisted gives you some healing.
Stonehold used to be awesome... not so much a fan of NS4 stonehold.

Evocation, Transmutation, Conjuration, and maybe necro is what you would shoot for on a caster druid.

[Daltian]

Druid has as many no SR spells as sorc/wizard does. They are even on par with no save spells.

They have a spell that lowers SR (requires an SR check... ::facepalm:: (also a save))

And you need to be close to enemy when you cast it which you won't be if they don't want you to since you are slower.

While not the best Quillfire (3rd level) is a no SR no save(vs damage) 30 magic damage spell. Not the same damage at level 1 magic missile. But missile can be shielded and resisted

You cast 20 of them, do 600 damage and then they just leave. Remember, they are faster then you are.

Vine Mine has no SR check and no Save to slow up to 10 people...

Wine mine has save now as far as I know. Up to 10 people except it is usually none. Everybody makes the save. Sounds like a stunt they use in commercials where they say something is up to 70% better, while usually is the same.

Creeping Doom is still an awesome spell (better when it could be stacked (cant anymore right?)) but you just gotta make sure you slow them down when going through it. No save and no SR!

I have heard bad things about creeping doom but can't comment on it. Didn't see it casted in ages.

Inferno as stated before... has no save (yes SR).

Decent spell but not nearly as lethal as it once was.

Drown is an awesome spell if you can bump the DC to a decent amount. 90% health gone...!

I could say I am awesome sprinter if I could get to run as fast as Usain Bolt. But I can't. Also, you need to come close to cast drown if I remember right, and moblility becomes an issue again.

Healing Sting even if resisted gives you some healing.

Ok i'll cast sting on you and heal for little damage while I get pounded to death.

Stonehold used to be awesome... not so much a fan of NS4 stonehold.

qft



I would also want to point out that I wasn't asking for druid spells which are IMO quite bad to be buffed but to give druid some form of haste/movement speed increase. If druid was more mobile I would try to work with spells it has.

[Daltian]

**Thread Highjack**
Pure paladins suffer from lack of movement speed as well they where supposed to get a mounts Which as we all know is not going to happen.

No one prevents you from doing dex based palading and getting blinding speed.

I tried to make same thing with druid caster, get to 25 dex for blinding but then after I figured the best version I could I looked at travel/magic domain cleric and sighed. You go wisdom based, get haste from domain and get NEB, melfs and ice storm (which is arguably best druid damage spell).

[Amoenotep]

i'm sorry bio made clerics to be the best at everything and didn't give druids any of the fun spells it needed

[Alkapwn]

If you think I am not right about caster druids could you please give me example of the druid caster build that would be viable in pvp or share how you got killed by a caster druid/killed someone with it. Actually, was anyone killed by caster druid in high level pvp during the last year?

Inferno several times.

I do agree with you though a 50% speed bonus with 30+druid levels seems reasonable
Maybe even if it is just outdoors or something